2018 CIFSS Division 1/2 Thread

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2018 CIFSS Division 1/2 Thread

Postby caliwaterpolo » Mon Jul 23, 2018 1:36 pm

D1: Mater Dei over Harvard Westlake

Things look bleak for MD right now, but they have too much talent to let this go on forever. There’s not a better group of 5 than Seniors Ian Minsterman, Warren Loth, Kaden Kaneko and Cameron Reagan and Junior Cooper Haddad. There are some chemistry issues right now with the new coach but I think their championship experience will turn the tide. Harvard Westlake is a majority favorite and they’ll be very good with a coach who knows what he’s doing. Not a whole lot of question marks with Alex Bacur, the younger Maloney and Mot Stodhart leading the charge. If the younger Krutonog plays well in the goal and they get better production out of 2M, they will likely be on top in the end. Newport is hovering and is the most improved team. Given their recent play, I don’t think anyone would be surprised if they ended up in the title game and knocked off one of the first two teams mentioned.

For the rest, it appears REV and Oaks are the next best. REV has all their guys back and Oaks has one of the best goalies in the nation returning in Adrian Weinberg along with attacker Alika Nanone. To round it out, I’m predicting Loyola, Santa Margarita and CDM.

D2: Foothill over Huntington Beach

For the pack, it’ll once again be Foothill (they’re making a habit out of this), HB (who may be better than expected) and Orange Lutheran (due to their coaching). It looks like Damien will be decent and I look for San Clemente and Woodbridge to be darkhorse potential semifinalists.

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Re: 2018 CIFSS Division 1/2 Thread

Postby wpgeek » Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:36 pm

REV should make the top 8

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Re: 2018 CIFSS Division 1/2 Thread

Postby jlweath » Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:38 pm

Here's info from the 2017 season and the 29 teams in Div 1/2:

Below are some more detail on the 29 Div1/2 teams from the 2017 season finals. I have them listed in Power Ranking high to low. No surprise that the top 8 are the 2017 Div 1 teams, no other Div2/3 teams were able to crack the top 8 to start the 2018 season based upon power ranking, hovever, I think REV will end up in the top 8. The 9-12 positions are represented by the Div 2 top teams from the playoffs (4 semi-finalists and 1 qtr-finalist).

The first surprise was the 13th ranked power ranking (Woodbridge) a Div 3 Qtr-finalist got the 13th place (ahead of the 4 div 3 semi-finalists. T thought for sure that they would be in Div 3 for 2018. But the Power Ranking system pulled up 7 (Even one Div 3 team that lost in the Div 3 1st round (Beckman)) Div 3 teams into Div1/2. Servite (They beat Woodbridge in the Div 3 qtr-finals) a Div 3 semi-finalist is the lone top team from 2017 to remain in Div 3. REV should break into the top 8.Got to wonder sometimes if some human intervention would help out this system.

Hopefully, I got all the below information correctly applied.

1 - Mater Dei 21.21161176 - (2017 CIF SS Div 1 Champion, 24-3, 5-0, Lost 3 Div 1 ALL-CIF players, return 4 Div 1 ALL-CIF players)
2 - Lutheran/Orange 20.58043168 - (2017 CIF SS Div 1 5th place, 24-2, 4-1, Lost 5 Div 1 ALL-CIF players, return zero ALL-CIF players)
3 - Newport Harbor 18.3836303 - (2017 CIF SS Div 1 3rd place, 22-5, 5-0, Lost 4 Div 1 All-CIF players, return 2 Div 1 All-CIF players)
4 - Harvard Westlake 18.11316072 - (2017 CIF SS Div 1 4th place, 15-12, 5-0, Lost 2 Div 1 All-CIF players, return 3 Div 1 All-CIF players)
5 - Huntington Beach 17.9594129 - (2017 CIF SS Div 1 8th place, 16-7, 4-1, Lost 3 Div 1 All-CIF players, return zero Div 1 All-CIF players)
6 - Santa Margarita 17.93007032 - (2017 CIF SS Div 1 7th place, 17-4,3-2, Lost 3 Div 1 All-CIF players, return 1 Div 1 All-CIF player)
7 - Loyola 17.61608526 - (2017 CIF SS Div 1 6th place, 16-11,4-1, Lost 3 Div 1 All-CIF players, return 2 Div 1 All-CIF players)
8 - Oaks Christian 17.15739366 - (2017 CIF SS Div 1 2nd place, 21-5, 8-0, Lost 4 Div 1 All-CIF players, return 2 Div 1 All-CIF players)
9 - Foothill/Santa Ana 16.45373204 - (2017 CIF SS Div 2 Champion, 19-7, 3-0, Lost 5 Div 2 All-CIF players, return 1 Div 2 All-CIF player)
10 - Corona Del Mar 15.74502808 - (2017 CIF SS Div 2 2nd place, 18-9,10-0, Lost 4 Div 2 All-CIF players, return 1 Div 2 All-CIF player)
11 - Laguna Beach 14.20777182 - (2017 CIF SS Div 2 Qtr-Finalist, 19-8, 4-0, Lost 2 Div 2 All-CIF players, return 1 Div 2 All-CIF player)
12 - Agoura 14.03554152 - (2017 CIF SS Div 2 Semi-finalist, 14-11, 6-2, Lost 2 Div 2 All-CIF players, return 2 Div 2 All-CIF players)
13 - Redlands East Valley 13.49716148 - (2017 CIF SS Div 2 Semi-finalist, 24-4, 8-0, Lost zero Div 2 All-CIF players, return 5 Div 2 All-CIF players)
14 - Woodbridge 12.22663494 - (2017 CIF SS Div 3 Qtr-Finalist, 21-5, 8-2, Lost zero Div 3 All-CIF players, return 2 Div 3 All-CIF players)
15 - Aliso Niguel 12.10120724 - (2017 CIF SS Div 2 1st Round, 19-2, 6-2, Lost 3 Div 2 All-CIF players, return zero Div 2 All-CIF players)
16 - La Serna 12.01813742 - (2017 CIF SS Div 3 Champion, 21-7, 5-0, Lost 2 Div 3 All-CIF players, return 3 Div 3 All-CIF players)
17 - Mira Costa 11.93591114 - (2017 CIF SS Div 2 Qtr-Finalist, 20-7, 8-0, Lost 1 Div 2 All-CIF players, return 2 Div 2 All-CIF players)
18 - Dos Pueblos 11.9057449 - (2017 CIF SS Div 3 2nd Place, 21-7, 7-1, Lost 1 Div 3 All-CIF player, return 3 Div 3 All-CIF players)
19 - Murrieta Valley 11.86131876 - (2017 CIF SS Div 2 Qtr-Finalist, 18-9, 8-0, Lost 1 Div 2 All-CIF players, return 2 Div 2 All-CIF players)
20 - Palos Verdes 11.77001306 - (2017 CIF SS Div 2 1st Round, 20-9, 6-2, Lost 2 All-CIF players, return 1 All-CIF player)
21 - Dana Hills 11.73479428 - (2017 CIF SS Div 2 1st Round, 13-15, 5-3, Lost 1 Div 2 All-CIF player, return 1 Div 2 All-CIF player)
22 - Los Alamitos 11.71938548 - (2017 CIF SS Div 3 Qtr-Finalist, 16-9, 3-2, Lost 2 All-CIF players, return 1 All-CIF player)
23 - San Clemente 11.5126673 - (2017 CIF SS Div 2 Qtr-Finalist, 19-9, 7-1, Lost zero Div 2 All-CIF players, return 2 Div 2 All-CIF players)
24 - Ventura 11.21795892 - (2017 CIF SS Div 2 1st Round, 16-4, 7-1, Had zero Div 2 ALL-CIF players)
25 - Poly/Riverside 10.6381042 - (2017 CIF SS Div 3 Qtr-Finalist, 15-7, 4-0, Lost 3 Div 3 All-CIF players, return zero Div 3 All-CIF players)
26 - Beckman 10.45524668 - (2017 CIF SS Div 3 1st Round, 16-13, 5-5, No Div 3 All-CIF players)
27 - Damien 10.44773774 - (2017 CIF SS Div 2 1st Round, 21-9, 7-1, Lost zero Div 2 All-CIF players, return 2 Div 2 All-CIF players)
28 - Wilson/Long Beach 10.21227966 - (2017 CIF SS Div 2 1st Round, 14-12, 5-0, No Div 2 All-CIF players)
29 - Villa Park 10.04248508 - (2017 CIF SS Div 3 Qtr-finalist, 19-9, 2-1, Lost 3 Div 3 All-CIF players, return 1 Div 3 All-CIF players)
Last edited by jlweath on Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2018 CIFSS Division 1/2 Thread

Postby Rbpolo0414 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:05 pm

REV was a D2 semi-finalist. La Serna won D3 last year. You have it correct at the bottom, but incorrect in the 2nd paragraph.

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Re: 2018 CIFSS Division 1/2 Thread

Postby Rbpolo0414 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:29 pm

Here are my pre-season power rankings:
D1:
1. Harvard Westlake (a notch above everyone else right now. A complete team)
2. Newport (One of the best players in D1 and a great supporting cast. Not sure about the goalie?)
3. Mater Dei (New coach has not gotten the best out of this talented crew, this could be low or high. We'll see.)
4. Loyola (Nobody has seen this team play in a year. Talented group of Juniors and possibly a significant transfer)
5. REV (return everyone from last season's semi-finals appearance. One of the best goalies in D1. Defensive minded. Tough out.)
6. Oaks Great goalie, great junior, and I'm not sure what else. Rumors of a couple transfers but not sure who.)
7. Huntington (I don't know much about this team. Going off of State Champs performance)
8. Santa Margarita (Young, but talented team, with a good coach. Look out in '19)

D2: (I expect to see plenty of fluctuation in this list, as it is much harder to handicap in the pre-season)

9. OLU (very young, this could be high, but for now I'll put them here)
10. CDM (have some talented players returning)
11. San Clemente (have an elite player, who carries them)
12. Foothill (Lost a lot of talent. Good goalie. I'm guessing this is a rebuild year)
13. Agoura (reputation puts them in this spot, i'm not familiar with what is returning)
14. Mira Costa (lost their stud goalie to USC, but return everyone else, and have a solid goalie)
15. Laguna (Gregory is a great player, not sure what else is left from last year)
16. Murrieta Valley (always solid, this could be too low)
17. Palos Verdes (young team with talent, this could be too high or too low. Look out in '19 for a run in D2
18. Woodbridge (another young team that returns quite a bit of talent). Another team to watch out for in '19

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Re: 2018 CIFSS Division 1/2 Thread

Postby jlweath » Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:50 pm

Rbpolo0414 wrote:Here are my pre-season power rankings:
D1:
1. Harvard Westlake (a notch above everyone else right now. A complete team)
2. Newport (One of the best players in D1 and a great supporting cast. Not sure about the goalie?)
3. Mater Dei (New coach has not gotten the best out of this talented crew, this could be low or high. We'll see.)
4. Loyola (Nobody has seen this team play in a year. Talented group of Juniors and possibly a significant transfer)
5. REV (return everyone from last season's semi-finals appearance. One of the best goalies in D1. Defensive minded. Tough out.)
6. Oaks Great goalie, great junior, and I'm not sure what else. Rumors of a couple transfers but not sure who.)
7. Huntington (I don't know much about this team. Going off of State Champs performance)
8. Santa Margarita (Young, but talented team, with a good coach. Look out in '19)

D2: (I expect to see plenty of fluctuation in this list, as it is much harder to handicap in the pre-season)

9. OLU (very young, this could be high, but for now I'll put them here)
10. CDM (have some talented players returning)
11. San Clemente (have an elite player, who carries them)
12. Foothill (Lost a lot of talent. Good goalie. I'm guessing this is a rebuild year)
13. Agoura (reputation puts them in this spot, i'm not familiar with what is returning)
14. Mira Costa (lost their stud goalie to USC, but return everyone else, and have a solid goalie)
15. Laguna (Gregory is a great player, not sure what else is left from last year)
16. Murrieta Valley (always solid, this could be too low)
17. Palos Verdes (young team with talent, this could be too high or too low. Look out in '19 for a run in D2
18. Woodbridge (another young team that returns quite a bit of talent). Another team to watch out for in '19


I agree with your top 8. My top 5 teams for Div 2 would be
1 - CDM (12th at HS Champs)
2 - OLU (13th at HS Champs)
3 - Foothill (16th at HS Champs), got some great freshmen coming in from their top 14 team.
4 - SC (got 21th at HS Championships)
5 - Woodbridge ( I saw Woodbridge beat both Foothill and Laguna (Got 33rd at HS Champs) over the summer, not certain who was missing from Foothill or Laguna)

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Re: 2018 CIFSS Division 1/2 Thread

Postby Rbpolo0414 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:54 pm

jlweath wrote:
Rbpolo0414 wrote:Here are my pre-season power rankings:
D1:
1. Harvard Westlake (a notch above everyone else right now. A complete team)
2. Newport (One of the best players in D1 and a great supporting cast. Not sure about the goalie?)
3. Mater Dei (New coach has not gotten the best out of this talented crew, this could be low or high. We'll see.)
4. Loyola (Nobody has seen this team play in a year. Talented group of Juniors and possibly a significant transfer)
5. REV (return everyone from last season's semi-finals appearance. One of the best goalies in D1. Defensive minded. Tough out.)
6. Oaks Great goalie, great junior, and I'm not sure what else. Rumors of a couple transfers but not sure who.)
7. Huntington (I don't know much about this team. Going off of State Champs performance)
8. Santa Margarita (Young, but talented team, with a good coach. Look out in '19)

D2: (I expect to see plenty of fluctuation in this list, as it is much harder to handicap in the pre-season)

9. OLU (very young, this could be high, but for now I'll put them here)
10. CDM (have some talented players returning)
11. San Clemente (have an elite player, who carries them)
12. Foothill (Lost a lot of talent. Good goalie. I'm guessing this is a rebuild year)
13. Agoura (reputation puts them in this spot, i'm not familiar with what is returning)
14. Mira Costa (lost their stud goalie to USC, but return everyone else, and have a solid goalie)
15. Laguna (Gregory is a great player, not sure what else is left from last year)
16. Murrieta Valley (always solid, this could be too low)
17. Palos Verdes (young team with talent, this could be too high or too low. Look out in '19 for a run in D2
18. Woodbridge (another young team that returns quite a bit of talent). Another team to watch out for in '19


I agree with your top 8. My top 5 teams for Div 2 would be
1 - CDM (12th at HS Champs)
2 - OLU (13th at HS Champs)
3 - Foothill (16th at HS Champs), got some great freshmen coming in from their top 14 team.
4 - SC (got 21th at HS Championships)
5 - Woodbridge ( I saw Woodbridge beat both Foothill and Laguna (Got 33rd at HS Champs) over the summer, not certain who was missing from Foothill or Laguna)


I definitely think Woodbridge could be too low. I'm being conservative since they were D3 last year.

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Re: 2018 CIFSS Division 1/2 Thread

Postby seaB » Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:19 pm

Big things were always expected from MD when Segesman was at the helm after the first couple of years when he took
over the program, with the talent MD currently has,if they don't at least make the division final, it could get ugly.

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Re: 2018 CIFSS Division 1/2 Thread

Postby SwimCoach » Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:44 pm

seaB wrote:Big things were always expected from MD when Segesman was at the helm after the first couple of years when he took
over the program, with the talent MD currently has,if they don't at least make the division final, it could get ugly.


I agree that the expectations for MD will be very high this year, but they lost their best player in JS and their goalie Motherway, not to mention Benson. Yes, they have good talent coming back, but those are some major losses.

I believe that MD was Division 2 when Segesman began and he took over a very talented team that included the Wherry brothers, Brett Bonani and Nathan Caulum among others. He definitely took them to the next level. It was a perfect storm at MD - a superb coach and an influx of great players - Wherry brothers, Bonani, Walters brothers, Baron, Daboub, etc. They definitely dominated that era of boys water polo.

I agree with the majority and think that MD will be battling it out with Newport and HW for a spot in the finals this year.

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Re: 2018 CIFSS Division 1/2 Thread

Postby dadonthedeck » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:05 pm

seaB wrote:Big things were always expected from MD when Segesman was at the helm after the first couple of years when he took
over the program, with the talent MD currently has,if they don't at least make the division final, it could get ugly.

Certainly so with the parents and some regulars here.

I'm guessing the Mater Dei administration might have more compassion for a new coach who "isn't Segesman" performance-wise.

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Re: 2018 CIFSS Division 1/2 Thread

Postby Cornershot » Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:28 pm

SwimCoach wrote:
seaB wrote:I believe that MD was Division 2 when Segesman began and he took over a very talented team that included the Wherry brothers, Brett Bonani and Nathan Caulum among others. He definitely took them to the next level. It was a perfect storm at MD - a superb coach and an influx of great players - Wherry brothers, Bonani, Walters brothers, Baron, Daboub, etc. They definitely dominated that era of boys water polo..


I would add Colin Carroll (started in goal for 4 years), Neal O'Hara and Tim Simo to the original cast that Segesman inherited. That group was all there due to the school being Catholic. I believe Carroll was the last of three boys to come through MD, Caulum the last of 4 siblings (including a girl who played on the boys team), O'Hara the 2nd of three, Simo the second of at least two and the Wherry boys I believe went to MD for the religious reputation and academics. I agree it was the perfect storm with a bunch of great athletes and a hungry coach that wanted to prove something and absolutely got the most out of all of them. It was only later that the others joined. Bonanni was the first. The Walters' and Baron came in at the same time a couple of years later after Segesman coached them on an ODP squad if I recall correctly. After that there was a sustained recruiting machine for quite a while. It will be interesting to see if that can continue.

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Re: 2018 CIFSS Division 1/2 Thread

Postby SwimCoach » Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:07 pm

Cornershot wrote:I would add Colin Carroll (started in goal for 4 years), Neal O'Hara and Tim Simo to the original cast that Segesman inherited. That group was all there due to the school being Catholic. I believe Carroll was the last of three boys to come through MD, Caulum the last of 4 siblings (including a girl who played on the boys team), O'Hara the 2nd of three, Simo the second of at least two and the Wherry boys I believe went to MD for the religious reputation and academics. I agree it was the perfect storm with a bunch of great athletes and a hungry coach that wanted to prove something and absolutely got the most out of all of them. It was only later that the others joined. Bonanni was the first. The Walters' and Baron came in at the same time a couple of years later after Segesman coached them on an ODP squad if I recall correctly. After that there was a sustained recruiting machine for quite a while. It will be interesting to see if that can continue.


Thanks for filling in some of the blanks. I had forgotten many of the names.

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Re: 2018 CIFSS Division 1/2 Thread

Postby dadonthedeck » Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:11 pm

Cornershot wrote:After that there was a sustained recruiting machine [at Mater Dei] for quite a while. It will be interesting to see if that can continue.

This comes up from time to time and always baffles me how I never saw it during 4-years as a parent at Mater Dei.

The only evidence of recruiting I saw was Segesman showing up to the school's open house and standing behind a table to answer questions. Beyond that, he regularly stiff-armed parents and players who made any suggestion about 8th-graders and transfers interested in the team. They were directed to the admissions dept., period. He also refused to talk to the parents of two notable transfers (who later became starters) until the players were actually enrolled in the school. If I recall correctly, he wouldn't even return a phone call.

I don't know about anything that happened before our daughter started Mater Dei in Fall of 2014. But in the years we were there, Segesman's behavior toward "recruits" was to stay as far away as possible. To avoid even the appearance of impropriety. I'd be interested if past Mater Dei parents or players would contradict that. I think many of us would have loved a more active "recruiting machine." But all I saw was the hard work of a dedicated admissions office and the glowing word-of-mouth reviews from existing parents, players and alumni.

Just my observations.

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Re: 2018 CIFSS Division 1/2 Thread

Postby seaB » Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:21 pm

Agree

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Re: 2018 CIFSS Division 1/2 Thread

Postby Rbpolo0414 » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:16 pm

dadonthedeck wrote:
Cornershot wrote:After that there was a sustained recruiting machine [at Mater Dei] for quite a while. It will be interesting to see if that can continue.

This comes up from time to time and always baffles me how I never saw it during 4-years as a parent at Mater Dei.

The only evidence of recruiting I saw was Segesman showing up to the school's open house and standing behind a table to answer questions. Beyond that, he regularly stiff-armed parents and players who made any suggestion about 8th-graders and transfers interested in the team. They were directed to the admissions dept., period. He also refused to talk to the parents of two notable transfers (who later became starters) until the players were actually enrolled in the school. If I recall correctly, he wouldn't even return a phone call.

I don't know about anything that happened before our daughter started Mater Dei in Fall of 2014. But in the years we were there, Segesman's behavior toward "recruits" was to stay as far away as possible. To avoid even the appearance of impropriety. I'd be interested if past Mater Dei parents or players would contradict that. I think many of us would have loved a more active "recruiting machine." But all I saw was the hard work of a dedicated admissions office and the glowing word-of-mouth reviews from existing parents, players and alumni.

Just my observations.


I have no doubt that this is true. But...you also don't know what conversations might of been taking place privately between the coach and the admissions office. I would bet with the success he had, he didn't need to recruit anybody, as his reputation did all the recruiting.

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