Proposed NCAA Rule Changes--simulating fouls

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ephpolo
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Proposed NCAA Rule Changes--simulating fouls

Postby ephpolo » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:59 pm

http://www.ncaa.com/news/waterpolo-men/article/2018-01-12/penalties-simulating-fouls-water-polo-proposed

(1) Makes "simulating a foul" an exclusion for a defensive player and a contra foul for an offensive player.
(2) Adds an additional warning to the sequence of cards that can be given to a head coach. Not sure I understand the thinking behind this, but now the options would be warning, yellow card, simultaneous yellow card/red card, and red card. If given a combo yellow/red, the coach would be required to stay behind the 2M line.
(3) Clarifies that for a dead time misconduct foul with the ball out of the water, the free throw remains with the team in possession of the ball before the misconduct.

#1 may be useful, and relates to some of our recent discussion here. I think it will be challenging to get consistency about what constitutes "faking a foul". I'm going to be some tempted to call it every time an offensive player makes contact with the defender, sinks himself and drops the ball hoping to "earn" an ordinary. That is "faking a foul" in my book. On the other hand, the offensive player holding the ball can do what he or she wants with it, and if they want to waste time by dropping the ball and looking at me like I owe them something, I suppose that is their right . . . There will be some interesting discussions about when to call and not call this.
#2 seems to be intended to give referees more options after a yellow card has been issued than a red card. I think it will amount to giving coaches a longer leash.
#3 Does anyone know what problem this is trying to address?

Rbpolo0414
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Re: Proposed NCAA Rule Changes--simulating fouls

Postby Rbpolo0414 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:07 pm

ephpolo wrote:http://www.ncaa.com/news/waterpolo-men/article/2018-01-12/penalties-simulating-fouls-water-polo-proposed

(1) Makes "simulating a foul" an exclusion for a defensive player and a contra foul for an offensive player.
(2) Adds an additional warning to the sequence of cards that can be given to a head coach. Not sure I understand the thinking behind this, but now the options would be warning, yellow card, simultaneous yellow card/red card, and red card. If given a combo yellow/red, the coach would be required to stay behind the 2M line.
(3) Clarifies that for a dead time misconduct foul with the ball out of the water, the free throw remains with the team in possession of the ball before the misconduct.

#1 may be useful, and relates to some of our recent discussion here. I think it will be challenging to get consistency about what constitutes "faking a foul". I'm going to be some tempted to call it every time an offensive player makes contact with the defender, sinks himself and drops the ball hoping to "earn" an ordinary. That is "faking a foul" in my book. On the other hand, the offensive player holding the ball can do what he or she wants with it, and if they want to waste time by dropping the ball and looking at me like I owe them something, I suppose that is their right . . . There will be some interesting discussions about when to call and not call this.
#2 seems to be intended to give referees more options after a yellow card has been issued than a red card. I think it will amount to giving coaches a longer leash.
#3 Does anyone know what problem this is trying to address?


I don't like #1 at all. This makes the ref's job tougher and more subjective and will confuse spectators even more. How about you just don't call a foul if its a simulation?

ephpolo
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Re: Proposed NCAA Rule Changes--simulating fouls

Postby ephpolo » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:23 pm

That's what we do now. Clearly someone thinks there is a problem that needs to be addressed.

The fact is that people in the games I officiate are faking fouls constantly, which is, arguably, misconduct. ("Play that is unacceptable within the spirit of the rules and likely to bring the game into disrepute.")

It will be interesting to see how this is rolled out. Without some clear guidance on how to call this, the results may be interesting, to say the least.

Rbpolo0414
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Re: Proposed NCAA Rule Changes--simulating fouls

Postby Rbpolo0414 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:21 pm

ephpolo wrote:That's what we do now. Clearly someone thinks there is a problem that needs to be addressed.

The fact is that people in the games I officiate are faking fouls constantly, which is, arguably, misconduct. ("Play that is unacceptable within the spirit of the rules and likely to bring the game into disrepute.")

It will be interesting to see how this is rolled out. Without some clear guidance on how to call this, the results may be interesting, to say the least.


we need less whistles, not more. I still see most officials calling that head bob foul on the perimeter. Just stop calling it, it is so obvious.

ephpolo
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Re: Proposed NCAA Rule Changes--simulating fouls

Postby ephpolo » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:35 pm

FWIW, I agree with you about the "head bob". Despite my strong desire to punish the players who do it--preferably with a laser death ray :lol: --if they want to waste their time on offense doing that, such is their right. We need to be consistent about how/whether to call it, though. Makes for a strange looking game if I never give them that call at one end of the pool and my partner is giving it at the other. (And of course sometime there really is a foul to call if the defender is dumb enough to help the offense get a free throw or direct shot.)

That still leaves the question of what to do when a player is obviously faking to "draw" an exclusion. This seems most common in transition, or as the center and center defender are untangling.

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Re: Proposed NCAA Rule Changes--simulating fouls

Postby oldtimer » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:42 am

FINA (and USAWP) already have the 'simulate' foul implemented. It isn't used when someone is trying to 'draw the foul' - they do as suggested here... simply watch in amusement as the player runs out the shot clock (OK, some still call the silly foul). When I have seen it used is when a player makes a loud noise or acts like some violent act has occurred and it is fairly obvious that no foul actually occurred (such as, both of the opponents hands are up).

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2plyBathingSuit
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Re: Proposed NCAA Rule Changes--simulating fouls

Postby 2plyBathingSuit » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:31 pm

I'm a hockey fan AND a water polo fan. It's always a pleasure watching games where the refs "swallow their whistles". Too bad there isn't more consistency in refs doing more of nothing.

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