12u 'no zone' rule question

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oldtimer
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12u 'no zone' rule question

Postby oldtimer » Sat May 26, 2018 11:07 am

The USAWP FAQ on the 12U rules, updated Jan 2017, state that the 'no zone' rule applies only when all attacking team players are in the attacking zone (past half). It also states that it is perfectly legal for a defensive player to leave early on a counter, and even 'press the goalie'.

Consider the following: Team A has a strong center but one or two weak outside shooters. Team B is on defense and elects leave a player back in front of the attacking team's goal. Team A dutifully leaves one of their players back to cover - resulting in the situation where at least one attacking player is out of the attacking half of the course. Team B now proceeds to double team the center, leaving a weak shooter open.

Late last year I was informed that the interpretation had changed, due to this scenario, disallowing the ability to have a team on defense camp out a player in front of the opponent's goal - but I don't see any update to that interpretation on the USAWP website. I recently was involved in a 12U game where this was under dispute and the eventual 'ruling' was that it was not allowed to camp a player out in front of the opponent's goalie to draw the attacker back behind half.

Which interpretation is currently the 'correct' one?

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Re: 12u 'no zone' rule question

Postby JackBurton » Sat May 26, 2018 3:44 pm

The 12U rule has a lot of issues but to answer your question - YES you can leave early from defense to offense. Just like you found on the USAWP 10U/12U rules appendix: What happens when an athlete leaves their defensive position to go to offense early? AKA:“Cherry-Picking” This is fine and legal as long as that defensive player is not leaving their position to double team a player on offense without the ball. http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/usw ... NDIX_E.pdf

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Re: 12u 'no zone' rule question

Postby oldtimer » Sun May 27, 2018 12:25 am

The question is: Can a player 'camp out' in front of the opposing goalie, forcing an attacking player to stay back - and therefore allowing the defense to double team/play zone defense? If the answer is yes, this seems to completely defeat the stated purpose of the rule.

In other words, if I want to allow my players to be able to drop I simply have to be willing to play 5 on 5.

Or, do referees allow 'leaving early', but not staying back?

Edit: I know what the FAQ says, but as I mentioned - I was told several times late last year that the interpretation had changed and leaving too early (whatever that is) was not allowed because of the situation I am referring to. I'd like to hear from referees what they have been told this year - I haven't seen any USAWP referee schools this year, so I haven't been able to attend one.

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Re: 12u 'no zone' rule question

Postby Allen Lorentzen » Sun May 27, 2018 2:18 am

oldtimer wrote:The question is: Can a player 'camp out' in front of the opposing goalie, forcing an attacking player to stay back - and therefore allowing the defense to double team/play zone defense? If the answer is yes, this seems to completely defeat the stated purpose of the rule.

In other words, if I want to allow my players to be able to drop I simply have to be willing to play 5 on 5.

Or, do referees allow 'leaving early', but not staying back?

Edit: I know what the FAQ says, but as I mentioned - I was told several times late last year that the interpretation had changed and leaving too early (whatever that is) was not allowed because of the situation I am referring to. I'd like to hear from referees what they have been told this year - I haven't seen any USAWP referee schools this year, so I haven't been able to attend one.


Having attended the most recent meeting, today in SoPac, I can tell you that "cherry picking" (leaving early, or just staying in the back court) is not currently a violation of the rules. The rule changed *to* allow leaving early, rather than the other way around. At this point it's up to the attacking coach to decide whether to bring all six attackers forward to develop 6v5 for the whole shot clock while the goalie covers the cherry picker, or to leave one attacker back with the cherry picker and develop outside shooting in the front court while the defense drops on the center.

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Re: 12u 'no zone' rule question

Postby oldtimer » Sun May 27, 2018 10:14 am

Thanks Allen.

Follow up question - since all 6 attackers are in the attacking zone, does the 'no zone' rule apply even though it is technically a 6-on-5?

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Re: 12u 'no zone' rule question

Postby Allen Lorentzen » Sun May 27, 2018 4:59 pm

oldtimer wrote:Thanks Allen.

Follow up question - since all 6 attackers are in the attacking zone, does the 'no zone' rule apply even though it is technically a 6-on-5?


Yes, as far as I know. That would mean it's not a tradional 6v5 but 5 attackers should be defended, probably with one of those defenders jumping to the open player with the ball - with a bunch of arms up for field blocks. The defense with 5 in the front court is not down a player in the pool. Defense certainly must not double team any one player.

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Re: 12u 'no zone' rule question

Postby oldtimer » Sun May 27, 2018 5:42 pm

Thanks Allen. That's perfect.

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Re: 12u 'no zone' rule question

Postby Sunny » Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:48 am

I’m sorry but this so-called loophole in the rule is ridiculous. Come on USAWP, do better. Fix this! If the entire point of this dubious-in-the-first-place rule is one on one player development, obviously a smart offense is not gonna leave a defender all alone in the back court, they’re going to send someone to cover them. To then “allow” the defense to play a zone goes against the entire point of the rule. As I understand it, the rule was written this way so if the offense is on a fast break, or the offensive team is transitioning to offense, but not all of their players have crossed half, the defense can still play zone and therefore not be forced to give up an easy one-on-nobody goal. To think it’s then “okay” to send your defense to the attacking end so now the offense has to send someone to cover you so now you can drop on the center... ugh. Maybe teach your players center-D, huh? I’m not surprised, but I am disgusted. Maybe it’s a good thing I’m no longer coaching 12u. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Re: 12u 'no zone' rule question

Postby JRG2322 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:33 pm

Does anyone know how the "no-drop" rule applies when trying to switch the 2-meter defender?

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Re: 12u 'no zone' rule question

Postby oldtimer » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:48 pm

The player wanting to switch on to the center has to drag his opponent into the middle, then make the switch...

Just kidding. Probably the 'best' way to switch is to do it when the ball is entered - hopefully crashing quickly enough that the ball gets kicked out again and the crasher can stay back while the original defender presses out. Otherwise, I would guess the switch has to happen mostly simultaneously, leaving two attackers open for a brief time.

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Re: 12u 'no zone' rule question

Postby JRG2322 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:50 pm

oldtimer wrote:The player wanting to switch on to the center has to drag his opponent into the middle, then make the switch...

Just kidding. Probably the 'best' way to switch is to do it when the ball is entered - hopefully crashing quickly enough that the ball gets kicked out again and the crasher can stay back while the original defender presses out. Otherwise, I would guess the switch has to happen mostly simultaneously, leaving two attackers open for a brief time.


Thanks

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Re: 12u 'no zone' rule question

Postby tomj » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:34 am

JRG2322 wrote:Does anyone know how the "no-drop" rule applies when trying to switch the 2-meter defender?


The only way I can see a switch being 100% within the rules is if both players move at the same time so that there is never a point where two defenders are covering one offensive player. This probably means leaving both offensive players uncovered for a moment.

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