ODP - Phase 2

USA Water Polo Olympic Development Program
Backofthenet
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ODP - Phase 2

Postby Backofthenet » Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:11 pm


momofpoloplayer
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Re: ODP - Phase 2

Postby momofpoloplayer » Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:49 am

If i've read this correctly, the kids who made the training team in Phase 1 are on the training team in phase 2. There were 91, 93, and 95 birth year try outs in phase 1, with the initial thought that the 93 group would become the junior group and the 95 group would become the youth group in Phase 2

The problem that jumps out at me is that the age groups in phase 1 are different than in phase 2. In phase 2 the birth years are reconfigured: 92/93 and 94/95. Why is this a problem? The regional ODP tournament is supposed to be an opportunity for all athletes on the training team to be seen. The Phase 1 training teams all have around 30-35 kids; the Phase 2 training teams are all supposed to have around 30 kids. When the age groups are reconfigured, with some of the 93 kids going to the older training teams and some of the 94 kids going to the younger training teams, there will be training teams of about 45 kids or so. How in the heck are they all going to get a chance to be seen in the Regional tournament? I don't see wording about cuts, but I do see definite numbers for the REgional Tournament teams that are less than the potential numbers of the training teams.

Backofthenet
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Re: ODP - Phase 2

Postby Backofthenet » Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:30 am

momofpoloplayer wrote:The regional ODP tournament is supposed to be an opportunity for all athletes on the training team to be seen. The Phase 1 training teams all have around 30-35 kids; the Phase 2 training teams are all supposed to have around 30 kids. When the age groups are reconfigured, with some of the 93 kids going to the older training teams and some of the 94 kids going to the younger training teams, there will be training teams of about 45 kids or so. How in the heck are they all going to get a chance to be seen in the Regional tournament? I don't see wording about cuts, but I do see definite numbers for the REgional Tournament teams that are less than the potential numbers of the training teams.


I had some of the same questions. Although the document does not stipulate cuts, it does stated "Athletes who were on their respective training teams in Phase 1 are automatically named initially to the Phase 2 training team." One would assume that "initially" they are on the training group team, but some would be cut to obtain the training team numbers outlined in the document (max 36, ideal 28).

Also, the numbers you identified of 30-35 kids is per zone. Phase 2 combines zones, so potentially you could have 60 - 105 kids trying to make 28-36 spots. If I am reading this correctly.

polomama23
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Re: ODP - Phase 2

Postby polomama23 » Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:11 pm

I am wondering how many players are returning to Phase 2 for the respective teams, if they weren't on their travel team? Daughter is on one of the Coastal California Training teams - with high school season coming up, current time commitments with club team, am wondering how much time can be allotted to training in Phase 2? I hate to ask this question - but is it worth it? Would it be better just to try out next year, again? Will the ODP coaches hold it against the girls if they don't complete Phase 2? Would the $800 spent on 60 hours of training be better applied to camps or club fees? With Phase 1, daughter didn't get ANY kind of individual assessment, although I hear that will be happening with Phase 2.

Trying not to be jaded about the process, but what I am observing is a system that seems slightly better designed for ODP Phase 2 for the boys, than for the girls. By the time Phase 2 gets rolling in high gear, the boys will be out of high school season here in So Cal in mid-November. But, the girls will be training and playing for their high school teams during the majority of Phase 2 from Mid November until almost the next ODP tryouts. Many high school teams have tournaments during the weekends - sometimes two or three during the season. There is no perfect system, but that leads me to my next thought.

There is nothing "scheduled" on the Coastal Cal calendar for Phase 2 training for girls, but payment is due by October 1st - in just a couple of days. Will Phase 2 begin in October or November? I would have liked to have seen what dates are proposed for these training dates, to know whether they conflict with high school and club tournaments and practices. Wouldn't most of us, before making this financial and time commitment?

I still believe this is an amazing opportunity for our players. Just not sure if it makes sense to stick it out with Phase 2, this year. Any thoughts from other players or parents?

Thebear
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Re: ODP - Phase 2

Postby Thebear » Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:03 am

From what I am reading the coastal zone will have girls tryouts on Oct. 4, with the girls from Phase I, it said when you give your money that if your daughter gets cut you will be reimbused for the hours not played. What I want to know is when are these cuts going to be made? So did I just pay for my daughter to join in Phase 2 for her to be cut on Oct. 4th?

I keep asking this question, but when 2010 rolls around what happens to the girls born in 93, then are they out? Why did they decide to change? I feel for the first time my daughter had a chance since she was going to be on the older side, but still young since she is born in dec. of 93, so she is really young to be playing with the 92 U.
I hope someone can answer our questions.

momofpoloplayer
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Re: ODP - Phase 2

Postby momofpoloplayer » Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:47 am

I'm still missing something here, especially since i've noticed a new round of tryouts in our zone [SOPAC] for the 94 girls. What does this mean for the 95 girls who just tried out and have yet to have a workout [boys too I imagine]. It doesn't seem right to have tryouts again; even the 94 girls had a chance to tryout earlier this year with the 93s [in January]. My earlier post about how the age groups have been jiggled together seems to ring true here-95s are going to get screwed before the program has already begun.

I would have expected that tryouts were done for 2009 and the training would have started by now.

keepingitpolo
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Re: ODP - Phase 2

Postby keepingitpolo » Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:10 am

A week ago I would have said save your money unless your daughter plays for LA or SB, the CC Zone coaches were useless stooges from LA and SB. It appears that has now changed, the new coaches for the girls are real college coaches without ties to LA and SB. I think now all the girls may get a fair judgement and some good instruction.

Someone up the line finally figured out that the old system was completely absurd and was headed for a problem. As far as the age groups are concerned, I am treating this as a new beginning and we will see how it works out

The Burninator
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Re: ODP - Phase 2

Postby The Burninator » Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:36 pm

Keepingitpolo,

You've got to drop this LAWPC and SBWP favoritism issue. The coaching staff for Coastal Zone ODP was comprised of "useless stooges"? LAWPC and SBWP have both had incredibly successful runs at both JO's and the US Club Championships in the 16 and 18 girls age groups of late. So you're saying that bad coaches and bad players have been having success at this level because of some kind of conspiracy? You're just sounding like an upset parent and don't have any facts to back up your point. At the junior level you're saying that Sami Hill, Kiley Neushul, and Alexis Lee from SB would not have made the team without coaches playing favorites? Or that Ashley Grossman, Colleen O'Donell, Molly McBee, or Erin Manke from LA all would have been left off if some college coach had been running it? Your argument makes no sense at all. Please either either present facts or stop making blanket accusations with nothing more then a grudge.

alwayswondering
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Re: ODP - Phase 2

Postby alwayswondering » Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:14 pm

I was wondering if we could go back to the point that momofpoloplayer was making:

If i've read this correctly, the kids who made the training team in Phase 1 are on the training team in phase 2. There were 91, 93, and 95 birth year try outs in phase 1, with the initial thought that the 93 group would become the junior group and the 95 group would become the youth group in Phase 2

The problem that jumps out at me is that the age groups in phase 1 are different than in phase 2. In phase 2 the birth years are reconfigured: 92/93 and 94/95. Why is this a problem? The regional ODP tournament is supposed to be an opportunity for all athletes on the training team to be seen. The Phase 1 training teams all have around 30-35 kids; the Phase 2 training teams are all supposed to have around 30 kids. When the age groups are reconfigured, with some of the 93 kids going to the older training teams and some of the 94 kids going to the younger training teams, there will be training teams of about 45 kids or so. How in the heck are they all going to get a chance to be seen in the Regional tournament? I don't see wording about cuts, but I do see definite numbers for the REgional Tournament teams that are less than the potential numbers of the training teams.


Did my child tryout in June for nothing? It seems odd that they would have a ODP tryout and the first practice for 94/95 on the same day, time, place. I've already paid the fees. Shouldn't some training now take place?

Otto
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New SoPac Tryouts--This Weekend!

Postby Otto » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:50 pm

Emails went out around 3 pm today. Registration today and sign up by tomorrow. Tryouts this Sunday, with two days before.

I know it's a program in transition, but these constant changes, poor planning and confusion are going to turn away athletes. Not to mention fail in their primary goal: Identifying althletes for the ODP pipeline.

How many water polo families are sitting around waiting for an email during game or practice times on Thursday? The email requires an immediate response for a commitment to pay more money and expecting you to drop everything for a tryout two days away?

Is there any good reason for this or is this just another ODP stumble? If so, it's getting old.

Outside Shooter
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Re: ODP - Phase 2

Postby Outside Shooter » Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:09 pm

It is sad if the purpose of the OPD is to just generate $$$. According to my calculations the 92U girls team will already have 40 returning players from phase 1. This is from the existing group of 92's and the incoming group of 93's. As for the 94U group you have 12 returning and I would guess 25-30 girls from the 95U tryout made the team. So we are looking at 37-42 girls already on the team. What is the purpose of having more tryouts this year (did we not do this already).

So back to the $$$ issue - it seems that only 28 kids will move on to play in the regionals and so anywhere from 12-15 girls will not get the opportunity to do so. Now add that they are doing tryouts again and the numbers increase. What I potentially see happening is the ODP process pulling all these girls through and then cutting large numbers right before the regionals. This way they capture all the funds $800.00 because our daughters have been involved for the 60-80 hours.

The best players should play and the ODP is a representation of our potential Olympic athletes, but lets also have some ground rules. If tryouts have already been done and players have made the team. Then USA water polo should honor their selections from their initial tryouts and maintain their commitment to train them.

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deepwater
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Re: ODP - Phase 2

Postby deepwater » Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:57 pm

It appears as though the SOPAC ODP tryouts went extremely well. I like the fact that the bleachers were divided into two sections. One side had the kids from last year and the other had the first timers or retries. Regardless of the groups Chris Segesman and company did a great job mixing them all and making it feel as if each kid had to work as hard as the next. In the end, when an announcement was made that the kids would be receiving an email was a bit up in the air, but... It always is. This is a great opportunity for kids to learn and play from one of the most desired in the nation.

proudpop
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Re: ODP - Phase 2

Postby proudpop » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:47 pm

The Cal Coastal girls are really starting to look good.

The seem to really work well with each other.

OC Polo
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Re: ODP - Phase 2

Postby OC Polo » Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:59 pm

I would agree with earlier posts that the process for the '95 girls was not run well at all. I understand programs evolve and changes need to made for the best but the communication was terrible all along. My daughter does enjoy playing with her peers from other clubs but it has been nothing but a succession of tryouts. Very little training is done, mainly scrimmages with no real feedback. You just need to guess how you are doing based on which scrimmage team you are on. The fact the group was changed from '95 and younger to '94 and younger was difficult enough but telling people about it three days in advance along with holding new tryouts just shows poor organization and lack of respect for their customers.

I really hope ODP can improve on this as my daughter really enjoys playing with this group of girls but I hope they provide more useful training. So far I don't think I am getting my money's worth. I don't think she will make the travel team so i am just paying for her to tryout every month.

Outside Shooter
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Re: ODP - Phase 2

Postby Outside Shooter » Sun Dec 20, 2009 1:03 am

deepwater wrote: Regardless of the groups Chris Segesman and company did a great job mixing them all and making it feel as if each kid had to work as hard as the next.


Totally disagree as the teams were not randomly selected. The returning players were separated mainly by the fact of birth year. Black cap team was 94's with a few exceptions, white caps were the 95's with a few exceptions. The green cap tryout team was completely stacked. The green cap and black caps scrimmaged a lot. The returning white cap team never scrimmaged the tryout green cap team?? So lets be clear about mixing them all and working as hard as the next. Stacked teams do not have to work as hard as a team that is not stacked. If the ODP process is just to fall back to it old standard then what is the point. ODP is failing on developing players when they do not even have a practice from June to December. Maybe those involved with the ODP process should actually read what they write (ODP handbook). Whatever the ODP process was suppose to be, it failed. But lets not forget to pay your $400.00 after all we did get another 6 hour tryout.

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