ODP tryout dates???

USA Water Polo Olympic Development Program
momofpoloplayer
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Re: ODP tryout dates???

Postby momofpoloplayer » Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:31 pm

There should be a way to get information of the state of the program, at least according to the ODP handbook.

One of the emphasized aspects of this program was something called "polometrics" [not sure of the exact title]. The idea was that there would be some measureable indicators of a players skill development. These measurements were supposed to be done at regular intervals to track player progress.

Ideally, then, when athletes try out, they are evaluated according to these metrics because, after all, these are the measurements by which progress could be determined. This would be considered a baseline. Then would come a midpoint evaluation period, followed by an end of the year evaluation.

My previous complaints with respect to the tryout process had mostly to do with what seemed to be a lack of objective standards (i.e. skill sets) by which the athletes were initially evaluated. Unless there are records of objective skill sets--and how the players performed on these--and continual evaluation based upon skill sets, it is thus difficult to come up with a progress report. Basing progress on the results of scrimmages is inherently biased based upon the composition of the teams, etc [other posters on a previous thread discussed this].

That said, the only data left of an objective nature becomes number of athletes trying out, and of course, the budget associated with the entire enterprise. From that perspective, I supposed that one could say that because of the increase in athletes trying out, and the increase in revenues, then the program is a sucess.

Echoing a poster from above, I would expect that for $800 more information be forthcoming. The lack of any kind of report in the public domain [even a brief summary] from a national ODP summit is shoddy.

waterwatcher
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Re: ODP tryout dates???

Postby waterwatcher » Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:02 pm

I was told when my son was on the ODP squad that we would receive detailed information on their polo skills. Well I never received it. I asked several times and then just gave up. My son also gave up on the program. Biased coaching, and players that knew they were all that and did not need to do the things asked of them. These kids and coaches also did not want any kids on their squad that were not from their "special" group of kids and did everything they could to discourage the "outsiders".

There were kids at our training that when told to do stuff said no I don't want to. Guess what they were so special that is fine for them to say.

I can not imagine my any of my kids ever supporting that program again. This program appears to just be a joke. I am sure the idea was a great one but the implementation is very very flawed.

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tigress49
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Re: ODP tryout dates???

Postby tigress49 » Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:22 pm

In my area (outside CA), many of us dropped out of the program because of the distances. Practices are several hours away and tend to be scheduled at the last minute so most were impossible for us to make. Our local coach isn't very good but better than the ODP coaches so the money was spent for an overall downgrade of coaching quality. Initially, I thought the program was going to elevate the level of coaching in our area but after 2 years there is no significant difference with the ODP coaches and we've seen little if any trickle down effect. As i've said before, maybe it's working well in California but out here in the rest of the country, it's not worth it. The money would be better off being used to train the coaches. Train 15 kids and 15 kids get better. Train 15 coaches and 150 kids get better. There's a lot more bang for your buck that way.

my69442w30
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Re: ODP tryout dates???

Postby my69442w30 » Sun Feb 07, 2010 6:24 pm

waterwatcher wrote:I was told when my son was on the ODP squad that we would receive detailed information on their polo skills. Well I never received it. I asked several times and then just gave up. My son also gave up on the program. Biased coaching, and players that knew they were all that and did not need to do the things asked of them. These kids and coaches also did not want any kids on their squad that were not from their "special" group of kids and did everything they could to discourage the "outsiders".

There were kids at our training that when told to do stuff said no I don't want to. Guess what they were so special that is fine for them to say.

I can not imagine my any of my kids ever supporting that program again. This program appears to just be a joke. I am sure the idea was a great one but the implementation is very very flawed.



How much did it cost your for your son?

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Aqualung
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Re: ODP tryout dates???

Postby Aqualung » Sun Feb 07, 2010 7:28 pm

tigress49 wrote:In my area (outside CA), many of us dropped out of the program because of the distances. Practices are several hours away and tend to be scheduled at the last minute so most were impossible for us to make. Our local coach isn't very good but better than the ODP coaches so the money was spent for an overall downgrade of coaching quality. Initially, I thought the program was going to elevate the level of coaching in our area but after 2 years there is no significant difference with the ODP coaches and we've seen little if any trickle down effect. As i've said before, maybe it's working well in California but out here in the rest of the country, it\'s not worth it. The money would be better off being used to train the coaches. Train 15 kids and 15 kids get better. Train 15 coaches and 150 kids get better. There's a lot more bang for your buck that way.


there doing it with refs on water polo academy-they should do it with coaches there too.water polo academy does a good job too-i admit i was sceptical at first but it works. easy way to teach all the coaches in the country cheap.

waterwatcher
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Re: ODP tryout dates???

Postby waterwatcher » Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:03 am

my69442w30 wrote:How much did it cost your for your son?



I think we made two payments. I have tried to block it from my mind the money wasted.

Backofthenet
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Re: ODP tryout dates???

Postby Backofthenet » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:29 pm

Waterwatcher,
We made two payments too and recently received a notification of a refund for the amount paid less the commensurate value equivalent to the hours of training received.

Chuck

Gmanvk7
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Re: ODP tryout dates???

Postby Gmanvk7 » Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:59 pm

I've been trying to find out when Tryouts are scheduled as well. I received this information from James Lathrop who is the coordinator of the ODP program.

"The next phase of ODP for 94U will begin in Sept 2010. The Southern Pacific Zone 94U tryout will occur in the fall, but those dates have not yet been finalized. They should be soon and will be added to the calendar."

Also I heard yesterday that ODP will be putting up their own designated website March 1st.....I was told not to hold my breath.

KJE
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Re: ODP tryout dates???

Postby KJE » Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:50 am

Since I am making my ODP rounds on the message board tonight, I might as well respond to this one as well. Although I'm not clear as to what the question is. I gather it is about scheduling. First, contrary to popular belief, no one has quit. Second, the person who was released worked for 12 months, well within Loren's guidelines for evaluating an employee. Reasons are confidential, and should be. Enough said about that.

Part of the scheduling process has been getting coaches to set dates and help coordinators get pools. At the Summit this year, the coordinators and coaches set the calendars together taking into consideration, club schedules, high school schedules, swim schedules, and academic schedules. For the most part, all of the zones set their tryout schedules for the spring and their 2010-11 schedules. Tryout dates are posted on the USWP Zone homepages, if they have been received by the Zone Coordinator. The Operations Manager is taking care of this. 2010-11 dates are posted, or will be soon. We are updating the web regularly. The most recent information is posted.

Regarding ODP nationally, I can only speak about the girls program. I have been to Coastal, SoPac, Pacific, Central, MW, NE, MTN and I am heading to the SE in two weeks. Parents meetings have been held at every training I have been to. Most of the questions relate to clarification on the Regional Championships and what happens next. I've learned a great deal about the various zones and the challenges they face and I think that will help as ODP moves forward. A few people on the boards mention the constant change that takes place in ODP... At this point, there are areas that need to remain consistent, and there are areas that need to continue to improve. That requires change. I'm guessing the overall communication with the member body just needs to improve to clarify what is actually changing.

I think things are going pretty well. The numbers are up from Phase I. I receive more positive responses and thank yous than I do criticisms. The coaching staff is doing a good job. For the first time in years I actually feel like the coaches are following the practice plans and I see athletes across the country doing uniform skills. The evaluations that have gone out to athletes have been well received. There is coach and officials development going on across the country and that part will continue to improve.

ODP will be on a school calendar starting in the next Phase. Finally the Summit will be at the beginning of the process, which I believe will eliminate a great deal of confusion and better prepare the coaching staff. The calendars are done in advance which will help the athletes and parents prepare as well. Communication guidelines have been created to streamline communication within ODP.

Is there still work to be done... absolutely. I hope that helps.

KJE
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Re: ODP tryout dates???

Postby KJE » Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:59 am

momofpoloplayer wrote:There should be a way to get information of the state of the program, at least according to the ODP handbook.

One of the emphasized aspects of this program was something called "polometrics" [not sure of the exact title]. The idea was that there would be some measureable indicators of a players skill development. These measurements were supposed to be done at regular intervals to track player progress.

Ideally, then, when athletes try out, they are evaluated according to these metrics because, after all, these are the measurements by which progress could be determined. This would be considered a baseline. Then would come a midpoint evaluation period, followed by an end of the year evaluation.

My previous complaints with respect to the tryout process had mostly to do with what seemed to be a lack of objective standards (i.e. skill sets) by which the athletes were initially evaluated. Unless there are records of objective skill sets--and how the players performed on these--and continual evaluation based upon skill sets, it is thus difficult to come up with a progress report. Basing progress on the results of scrimmages is inherently biased based upon the composition of the teams, etc [other posters on a previous thread discussed this].

That said, the only data left of an objective nature becomes number of athletes trying out, and of course, the budget associated with the entire enterprise. From that perspective, I supposed that one could say that because of the increase in athletes trying out, and the increase in revenues, then the program is a sucess.

Echoing a poster from above, I would expect that for $800 more information be forthcoming. The lack of any kind of report in the public domain [even a brief summary] from a national ODP summit is shoddy.


I won't respond to all of this, but I will respond to the polometrics piece. Polometrics was implemented after phase 1 with the athletes who where selected to their respective national teams. The testing was valuable in that it really focuses on helping athletes be more efficient with their skill set. Figuring out how to implement this program with the large body of athletes involved in ODP is a little more challenging. It is still on the plate to implement, but other things are taking priority. There needs to more consistency in the things we are doing, and then we can add this program. I understand your cynicism about the program.

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LABertocci
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Re: ODP tryout dates???

Postby LABertocci » Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:05 pm

Aqualung wrote:doing it with refs on water polo academy

Thanks for the kudos... we are doing our best. But the credit goes to Russ Thompson, Don Holbrook, Mark Maretzki, Mike Reid, Allen Lorentzen, and Jack Horton - they are doing the moment-to-moment instruction. Anyone can write a "textbook" ... but if you want good instruction, you need GREAT instructors. I am fortunate enough that some very talented AND dedicated instructors are willing to discard their other obligations to do all of this. Without them, there would be no WPA.
Loren A. Bertocci
Director, Water Polo Academy

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