Phase 3 93s

USA Water Polo Olympic Development Program
momofpoloplayer
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Phase 3 93s

Postby momofpoloplayer » Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:20 pm

New info posted on the USA water polo website.

Cannot figure out what happens to the 93s-anyone?

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Re: Phase 3 93s

Postby Moderator » Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:47 pm

Here is the link to the 2010 ODP information
http://www.usawaterpolo.org/NationalTeams/ODP.aspx

Outside Shooter
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Re: Phase 3 93s

Postby Outside Shooter » Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:53 pm

Just read the new OPD information. Can anybody say money grab. Talk about getting less for your investment with USAWP. 60-80 hours goes to 48 hours! Your 12 hours of tryout count towards your total 48 hours of Olympic Development Training :lol: . I am sure that cutting the training hours by almost half will produce even better results for these players. Momofpoloplayer, I agree (what happens to the 93's)? as it does not show them participating in phase 3. I am amazed that more parents and others are not chiming into this ODP money grab. I like to know how much Guy Baker is making this year from last year. Let's say each zone has 80-100 kids for the 94 tryouts x2 (boys and girls):

200 players X $200.00 for tryouts = $40,000 X 4 zones = $160,000 ya baby :D. Yes they will cut some on the first day but those numbers will be a small percentage I am guessing. Development is the key to success for any athletic program just look at the European teams.

polomama23
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Re: Phase 3 93s

Postby polomama23 » Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:24 pm

I am not sure if my player will be trying out again, this year. She isn't sure if it is worth it.

It's a bunch of money - and time - away from club team and studies. Is it worth it? Will she get the visibility at just her club or high school team? I wasn't thrilled with the way the phase two was handled in terms of scheduling and trying out new players. If it is going to be continual tryouts, why not just say that? Where is the feedback for the players?

Less time, same amount of money. Hmmm. Will have to think about it.

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Re: Phase 3 93s

Postby j_polo9 » Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:00 pm

hard to tell what the heck happens in Phase 3, it all looks like chinese to me-see below. for the money they charge, they should be able to get one of those blondes to figure out how to write a page for the web. sorry usawp but this is a damned joke. get rich foster back and while youre at it, maybe doc would be a consultant to show you how a website should be run :

Olympic Development Program

Phase 3

September 2010-May 2011

AGE GROUPS
<!--[if !supportLists]-->· <!--[endif]-->Expanding to 3 Age Groups

<!--[if !supportLists]-->o <!--[endif]-->1994u

<!--[if !supportLists]-->o <!--[endif]-->1996

<!--[if !supportLists]-->o <!--[endif]-->1997u

HEAD AND ASSISTANT COACHES
Selection
<!--[if !supportLists]-->o <!--[endif]-->The Phase 3 coaches are selected by the ODP Staff, that includes the returning Phase 2 coaches

<!--[if !supportLists]-->o <!--[endif]-->1994u will be the Phase 2 1992u Coaches

<!--[if !supportLists]-->o <!--[endif]-->1996 will be the Phase 2 1994u Coaches

<!--[if !supportLists]-->o <!--[endif]-->1997u will be the 2009 ODP Holiday Camp Coaches

Retention
<!--[if !supportLists]-->o <!--[endif]-->One goal for Phase 3 is to have continuity and consistency from Phase 2

<!--[if !supportLists]-->o <!--[endif]-->Continuity and consistency are two important building blocks for long term success

<!--[if !supportLists]-->o <!--[endif]-->The goal is to maintain and find if need be the right people, doing the right things for the right reasons and then have a structure and environment in place for them to thrive

<!--[if !supportLists]-->o <!--[endif]-->It is possible for a Phase 2 coach not to be selected for Phase 3

<!--[if !supportLists]-->o <!--[endif]-->It is possible for a 2009 ODP Holiday Camp coach not to be selected for Phase 3

Timeline and Deadlines
<!--[if !supportLists]-->o <!--[endif]-->1997u Coaches will be named by February 28, 2010

<!--[if !supportLists]-->o <!--[endif]-->Phase 2 Coaches will notify their respective National Technical Director they would like to be considered for Phase 3 by February 28, 2010


ODP TRAINING HOURS
48 hours: 3 Options (Determined by Zone Coach)
<!--[if !supportLists]-->o <!--[endif]-->8 training sessions x 6 hours

<!--[if !supportLists]-->o <!--[endif]-->4 training weekends x 12 hours

<!--[if !supportLists]-->o <!--[endif]-->3 training weekends x 16 hours

h20polomamma
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Re: Phase 3 93s

Postby h20polomamma » Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:35 pm

I would love to know how they actually select the coaches. What kind of experience/training is required to coach ODP? From what I saw at 2 different levels, the coaches were people I had never heard of at all. Do they go to a special training and does Guy Baker go to any of the trainings to see what is happening? Are they given guidelines for what to look for in a player from the national team coaches? Do the national team coaches attend any of the try-outs to give their input? I actually have not witnessed any of this and have had 2 players involved in the program. The only feed-back my players received was if they emailed the coach personally and requested feed-back. As far as I can see, the whole thing is a mess and way to get more money for USA water polo.

momofpoloplayer
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Re: Phase 3 93s

Postby momofpoloplayer » Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:48 pm

My son's coach in Phase 1 said they all had to attend a certain amount of training; I do not believe this was repeated in Phase 2 [maybe the assumption was that everyone had already done the training?]. From my vantage point, phase 2 was a mess--it seems like they fell behind and then had to change the plan to account for their lack of preparation for Phase 2.

From my read, Phase 3 is even more of a mess. How can you just drop an entire age group? Right now the training groups are 92u and 94u. As I read the plan the 94u becomes the top age group, but this dumps the 93u kids. Remember that 92U right now are largely seniors in high school-next year the 93 will be largely seniors . How can you have a plan which doesn't allow one entire age category [93] to participate in ODP? To carry it forward, will this also happen to the 95u [when the 96U will be the top group]?

The argument put forward to change from odd to even number years was to allow those even number year kids to have a chance to be at the top [even though the odd year is still the international cut off]. Fine, but then don't go screw an entire age category by not accounting for them in your planning.

My suggestion would be to have the top age category a three year category. Phase 3 would then be 93/94/95. Phase 4 would then be 94/95/96. Every age group would then have the chance to be the top group in training.

It is not as easy as just choosing a year; thought has to go into the planning process.

h20polomamma
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Re: Phase 3 93s

Postby h20polomamma » Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:17 pm

My son's coaches were not the same for phase 1 and phase 2. The 94u group has one of the assistant coaches now as a head coach and new assistants. The 92u has the same head coach with new assistant coaches. It doesn't seem as though the selection processes were the same between age groups nor between zones (I have kept in touch with friends from other zones). For the amount of money charged, there should be some consistency across the country so that the players have the skills required for the national team. There is also the fact that some zones had 96u try-outs and some didn't and then those players were told there was nothing for them but that they should go to the 94u selections.
I agree that the read on the ages has changed. Originally, we were told that the even years were going to get their chance this year and the odd years would be back on top next year; however, now it reads as though the odd years will be dropped all together.

120408
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Re: Phase 3 93s

Postby 120408 » Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:35 pm

93's are SOL - 95's aren't much better off - men's tryouts are a sham.

Does USAWP have some heavy hitting contributors in the 94 age bracket and that's why they left out 93's? (edited 95 to 93 which is what I meant) The coaching is better at our club than with ODP. With the reduced hours of training next year for the cost and the age change, we will no longer participate. We would stop paying dues if possible. JO's is the only program that will keep them in business. If they keep raising the entry fee there also we may see that stop also.

Time for a boycott!
Last edited by 120408 on Sun Feb 28, 2010 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

momofpoloplayer
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Re: Phase 3 93s

Postby momofpoloplayer » Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:13 am

120408 wrote:Does USAWP have some heavy hitting contributors in the 94 age bracket
:idea:

Hadn't thought of that, but upon further reflection that might be the only logical explanation for a series of illogical changes to the ODP plan from its original presentation.... ;-)

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Re: Phase 3 93s

Postby 120408 » Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:52 pm

Obviously, someone who has a late in the year, even numbered birth year kid is swinging some kind of influence. Right now neither logic nor professionalism seem to be the strong suit at USAWP. We can't even justify that these are growing pains when we're seeing such limited growth in the sport. Didn't our ODP fees just pay for the great minds all to come together at the ODP conference and this plan is what they came up with? You would think that someone would have asked about the 93's. As far as I can tell the 93's will be folded into the Junior team which is now a 91 and under team. See this from USAWP:

"Junior National Team Athletes will be selected from the Men’s National Trials Series Program to form Junior National Team for athletes born in 1991 and under. Junior National Team athletes will be eligible to be selected for international competition and the UANA 1991u Championships. Athletes on the Junior National Team not selected for those competitions are eligible to be on the Junior National Team. The final Junior National Team will be selected following the ODP 1992u National Training and Selection Camp. One purpose of the 2010 Junior National Team is to train and compete together in preparation for the 2011 Junior World Championships."

At least if you are a 93 or 92, you have a chance to prove yourself through the ODP pipeline. If you're a 91, however, there is no pipline. After this year if you were born in 93, 92 or 91, you fall off the grid unless you go to UCI, USC, Stanford, UCLA, Pepperdine, or CAL for the most part. This is why we won't see parity in the sport. I don't understand why there aren't open tryouts as there are with other sports. Last year was better organized than what's going on this year. This is a prime example of why the sport of water polo will not get wide spread, national support from donors.

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Re: Phase 3 93s

Postby 4theluvofthegame » Sun Feb 28, 2010 7:09 pm

120408,
You are so right!! I have a later 93 boy who is a sophomore and this is a really hard pill to swallow.
Today in the Pacific zone the 92u's and the 94u's are having an all day evaluation training session. Kirk Everist took the time to speak to us parents about the ODP philosophy and tried very hard to explain this to us. He admits they have a long way to go and the 93's are basically caught in the growing pains. In a nutshell, and I'm not saying I agree, USAWP's stand is that most 92's are graduating in 2010 so they are off to college and can try out for the MNT. Most 93's are going to graduate in 2011 so USAWP feels they'll go on to college and can go into the MNT pipeline. College coaches know who these boys are and can start to talk them after July 2010, watch them through the high school season and then recruit them come winter 2010 - Feb 2011 . The younger 93's who don't graduate high school until 2012 are the lost kids with no home. I think USAWP wants to pay more attention to the 94u's and younger because they have more time to train them. It's too bad the 93's can't be put into a group at least to tryout. Its such a waste of talent.

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j_polo9
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Re: Phase 3 93s

Postby j_polo9 » Sun Feb 28, 2010 7:35 pm

as someone recently told me, odp rules and plans change more often then hair color in huntington beach. who wants to invest $800 in something that changes constantly? let the buyer beware of the bait and switch. all the money is doing is justifying the salaries of 19 people wo cant even get a web page put up. the kids get second rate coaches who dont care as they aren't getting paid squat (unlike the huntington beach people).
i'm talking to a group of people about our own odp alternative. 20 kids parents each put up $800 and we hire a top european coach to come to the US for a 2 week intensive training camp-4 hours pool daily and 4 hours strength/tactics/film. 8 hrs a day x 10 days=80 hours of training. pay the euro coach $10,000 and the rest for pool rental. at the end of 2 weeks, we challenge the odp team and see who does better.

momofpoloplayer
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Re: Phase 3 93s

Postby momofpoloplayer » Sun Feb 28, 2010 7:58 pm

j_polo9 wrote:8 hrs a day x 10 days=80 hours of training. pay the euro coach $10,000 and the rest for pool rental. at the end of 2 weeks, we challenge the odp team and see who does better.


Of course your alternative would do better; the ODP team would only be getting 48 hours of training....

KJE
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Re: Phase 3 93s

Postby KJE » Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:42 pm

I'll see if I can clear up some of the questions/concerns posted here.

1. When I look at the USWP website it looks normal, so I'm not sure what other people are seeing. It reads like a normal document. I'll get it fixed whatever the problem is, that is an easy thing.

2. The only thing that has changed in regards to ODP for Phase 3 is the born in years and the tryout hours. The training and competition still totals 60 hours, exactly the same as this year. 8 training sessions plus the regional championships. It is the same. The 94s will be evaluated in the context of training 1 and 2 the same way they were this year. If you make the training team, the pay is the same, it has not changed.

3. The born 93s will not have ODP training next year. Born 93s will be evaluated this year and invited to national team training in 2010-11. They will continue to be seen by the national team staff and can be invited to national team training. This has happened in prior years. In some years age groups have been skipped, in some years there have been Open Tryouts and in some years there have only been personal invites. Several things are taken in to consideration when this decision is made. FINA has set the age groups for the future world championships, our age groups work accordingly. Athletes in college or headed toward college have been or will be identified.

4. Tryouts will take place for born 96 and born 97U kids in the spring or summer depending on the zone. the training teams will be selected and training will start in the Fall of 2010. Calendars for most of the zones have been set for 2010-11. All the tryout dates are already set.

5. Evaluations: On the girls side, evaluation camps have taken place in every zone except the SE which takes place in March. Essentially at the midway point of ODP zone coaches, regional directors, technical directors and potentially National team staff will attend the eval camps. The boys are just starting there camps. On the girls side, Kim Everist, Natalie Golda, Guy Baker, Adam Krikorian, Dan Klatt, Kyle Kopp, Kyle Utsumi and Megan Hernandez have attended various eval camps and training sessions. On the boys side Kirk Everist, Jason Lynch, John Abdou, James Lathrop, Terry Schroeder, Robert Lynn and Guy Baker have attended training sessions or eval camps on the boys side. After the eval camp coaches are to write evaluations for all the participating athletes. Athletes will also receive a formal evaluation after the regional championships as well. On the girls side several zones have completed their athlete evaluations and some are just finishing.

6. Coaches: At the end of Phase 2, coaches are being evaluated and it will be determined whether or not they will continue in ODP. There is a job description posted on the web. Techincal Directors and Regional Directors are working with coaches. We are striving to get the best coaches, that doesn't mean that it will be the most famous coach in your zone. ODP is an opportunity for coach development. A young coach who is well organized and professional and has the desire to learn the National Team System of Play, but has limited head coaching experience can be an ODP coach. All coaches will attend the National Training Selection Camp in June for four days of Professional Development, plus they will attend a Summit in September for continued training. Coaches will also be selected to attend the Holiday Camp for continued training. All coaches receive a written practice plan that they are to follow. To date 6 training sessions have been provided. If they choose not to follow it, then that will be evaluated.

7. ODP is a program that is in addition to club, not a replacement for it. It is supplemental training in the fundamentals of the national team system of play. Continued coaching and competition has to come from the clubs. Athletes who want to be identified by college coaches or national team coaches are good candidates for ODP. If an athlete has a goal of making a national team, then they should do ODP. I strongly encourage kids to play club. ODP focuses on a specific system of play, it only provides 60 hours of training and competition.

8. The $$$$. We will get the ODP Budget posted on the web and you can decide for yourself if Baker is buying a house in Beverly Hills with your money. No one is making a ton of money off of this program. Stop and think about what a program of this magnitude costs to run. People wanted accountability from Phase 1, that is what the program is working toward. I am happy to have dialogue with anyone about the fees and where the money goes. If you are paying in to the program, you need to ask questions.

I know there have been some bad experiences, there have also been some great experiences. Many of you have had the same in your club programs. If you are the parent of a female athlete who is in ODP and you have a question, feel free to email me. I rarely come on the message board so email is the best way to reach me.

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