New ODP Year

USA Water Polo Olympic Development Program
set2set
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New ODP Year

Postby set2set » Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:01 pm

How is the ODP year starting off? I understand there will be more teams this year with potentially a trip to Serbia for the Cadet team? Any specific plans for the Youth Team for the Worlds next December? Any clarification on all the age groups (93, 94, 95, 96, 97)

Also, recently heard a conversation regarding how other sports pick top talent (here in USA). Thought it was interesting in that once identified for National Team the athletes no longer play on a local club level, but compete / train solely with the national coaches. I like how USA Water Polo is handling the ODP with multiple entry points and a combination of local, regional and national training, I hope it continues.

h2odad
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Re: New ODP Year

Postby h2odad » Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:27 pm

Does anyone care to comment on USA Water Polo's ODP set-up for 2012?
Here's some interesting data regarding the 2011 boys cadet & youth teams:

2011 Boys Cadet Team:
- (4) 94s
- (6) 96s
- (3) 97 birthdays,

2011 Boys Youth Team:
- (10) 94 birthdays
- (2) 95's
- (1) 96

There are 29 boys on a National Team with a 94, 95, 96 or 97 birthday.
- 94 birthdays - 16 boys (2 junior, 10 youth, 4 cadet)
- 95 birthdays - 2 boys (2 youth)
- 96 birthdays - 8 boys (2 youth, 6 cadet)
- 97 birthdays - 3 boys (3 cadet)

When viewing the USA WP website (https://sites.google.com/a/usawaterpolo ... t-and-ntsc), it appears that the youth and cadet teams will not transition to 95U & 97U, but will stay with the 94U and 96U just like last year. Also, the site says that 18 athletes will be chosen from the "youth" July training camp for an international tournament. Given the 13 player limit per team, this means that 5 youth players will be redirected to the cadet team, leaving just 8 spots for 96 & 97 birthdays (one less than last year).

It will be very interesting to see how many existing 2011 cadet and youth players do not make an international team in 2012. I suspect that most 2011 international players will return, unless they opt out of ODP.

Why not change the age limits, so some of the 95U & 97U Boys can get experience on a youth or cadet team? It would seem fair that the 94U boys should age up and challenge for a Junior or Senior Team spot, and thus, open up spaces on the younger national teams.

Let's be honest here ------ the $1,750 ODP Costs ($750 first round & additional $1,000 USAWP "donation" to attend NTSC Camp) will probably not get a player to an international tournament, unless he went last year. Congratulations if your son has a 94 birthday! If you are a 95 or 97 birthday, lots of luck competing with the 5 incumbents.....

cagemaster
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Re: New ODP Year

Postby cagemaster » Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:37 pm

deja vu

minnow
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Re: New ODP Year

Postby minnow » Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:07 pm

We have to pay USAWP dues for our club because they require it for insurance but otherwise I wouldn't pay.

For the east/midwest/southeast/mountain zone we've had to travel to FL every year and that should rotate between the zones to help offest airfare costs. We were promised training by national team coaches to our zone and we never saw them during the time we participated. Two evaluations were supposed to be sent and only one was received. The coach was still recruiting new players one week before traveling to FL so kids were shuffled between the two teams not knowing which they would play on. Fourteen year old kids unaccompanied by parents arriving into FL were left sitting at the airport for 2+ hours waiting for another flight to come in to give them a ride to the hotel. Those were the logistics up front not a weather or mechanical problem with the aircraft. You add all those problems onto the issue with age groups and it's no wonder there are people who refuse to participate in ODP. Then to further exacerbate those all problems you add in the political issues, so ODP is not worth the time or money. If anyone believes otherwise, enjoy drinking the Kool-Aid. This only hurts the Olympic team because there's no way I would give a thin dime to support such a disfunctional organization as USAWP. With a limited fan base who is disgruntled, these are all factors for why water polo is a sport ready to die out. Changing the length of the playing area or the shot clock won't revive the game.

Polo Nono
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Re: New ODP Year

Postby Polo Nono » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:31 am

Couldn't agree with you more Minnow

SoPac is carrying 50 plus 8th grade boys, if that is not a money grab, I don't know what is....And to top it off the coaches were told that they were going to be paid $8 (yes EIGHT) whole dollars an hour to coach. Love to see GB get $8 dollars an hour, it would certainly help finance the National Teams.

jinvta
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Re: New ODP Year

Postby jinvta » Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:41 am

I am still confused by the ODP system and when it switches from grade to age. For instance, if an 8th grader is old for their grade (born in mid-1997), and sometimes well more than a year older than other participants in the same training group, does that athlete go to a different selection camp than the 1998 and under players in the same ODP training group? If so, how does it benefit the born 1997 player to train with younger players, but then have to compete against others born in the same year (but training at a higher grade level) at the selection camps?

"ODP strives to be an inclusive program and wants to expose as many athletes as possible to the National Team system with the understanding each athlete has a chance to be selected for the National Team Selection Camp which may lead to a National Team selection. The National Team Selection Camp is the transition point from ODP grade level system (used by ODP Zone Teams to be inclusive) to the National Team born in year system (used by National Teams as dictated by FINA, the International governing body of water polo). It is the job of the National Team coaches to place the ODP athletes with their correct National Team and/or level following the conclusion of the National Team Selection Camp."

Is this the reason so few 1995's have been selected, because they have been training with a younger age group ("to be inclusive") when they should actually be training with players their own (year born) age in order to be more competitive?

What is actually meant by the words "to be inclusive" in justifying training by grade rather than age? Who does USAWP feel would be "excluded" from ODP if training was done by (year born) age, rather than grade? From the posts above, it appears that NOBODY is ever excluded from ODP training. So, it would seem that everyone would be better off training with players their own (year born) age in order to prepare them for their respective age appropriate training selection camps.

KJE
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Re: New ODP Year

Postby KJE » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:26 pm

1. The 2012 information isn't completely posted on the NTSC page for National Teams - to quell the comments about deja vu and born 95/97 - BORN 97S ARE GOING TO SERBIA in August. 18 players are traveling, training and competing from the Youth team in Europe - this will be mixed 93, 94, 95, 96; A born 95 heavy team will be traveling to Canada for UANA - it will include 93, 94, majority 95 and 96 athletes. More athletes will be traveling this summer than last for the boys. Girls - 18 athletes going to Europe, 13 going to Uana - heavy born 95 team. Born 96U will have 28 players competing with Australia and Canada for a 5 day training and competition in Southern CA. More athletes training and competing.

2. The wage for an ODP head coach is $2100. The total hours worked are probably around 70. You do the math. $8 an hour is factually incorrect.

3. Grade vs. Year. Every born 93 in the program who is a senior would not be participating this year if we didn't go to grade. The NTSC is a National Team, not an ODP event. Years and grades will be sorted out. Confusing for most, yes. But it allows those seniors to continue if they wish.

Spargus
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Re: New ODP Year

Postby Spargus » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:03 pm

I can't hardly understand the benefits for the older players (93) who most of them have already played 1 year of water polo at the college level to play with HS players as young as 95 or 96.

jinvta
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Re: New ODP Year

Postby jinvta » Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:12 pm

The way I understand it, not all 93's can play down, only those who are still in 12th grade, however, they are ineligible for any team. They can still raise the $1000 and go to NTSC, but have no chance of making a team.

So, if the purpose is not to exclude these 12th graders, then why don't they just allow old 12th graders to play down, but have the old 10th graders (95's) and old 8th graders (97's) compete with kids in their own respective national selection age groups, 94u, and 96u, respectively? Wouldn't that make things much more simple? Have the ODP training groups by age (94u, 96u, 98u), yet still allow old high school players (93's) to play down?

How does having 95's pay to go to NTSC in the the 10th grade and under group (96u) help them if they are ineligible for the 96u training team? Why would anyone raise $1000 only to be cut because they are ineligible for the group in which they are competing? $1000 is alot of money to come up with for one weekend of training, the remainder of which goes to help subsidize those who are age-eligible and can move on to the next level.

Further, since there are 95's in the 96u and 97's in the 98u groups, these older players are taking spots from the younger players who are age-eligible, and thus excluding many of those younger players.

h2odad
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Re: New ODP Year

Postby h2odad » Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:00 am

KJe, are you saying that a 97U team will be traveling to Serbia this summer, or that a few 97 players are expected to be selected from the 12th grade team? Also, will the 96u august training with Canada and Australia constitute an additional $1000 donation to usawp?

pumpfake
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Re: New ODP Year

Postby pumpfake » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:15 pm

h2odad,

Yes. You pay $1000 for NTSC and pay another $1000 if you child is selected to participate on a travel team.
That's what it says on the USAWP website.

I have a questions of my own.

I thought I was supposed to get two evaluations; one after the evaluation camp and the second one after ODP ends.
I haven't gotten any.
I sent an email to the coach asking about the evaluations, but I didn't hear from him.
Did everyone get an evaluation from the coach or this year they are not sending out the evaluations at all?

OCPoloDad
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Re: New ODP Year

Postby OCPoloDad » Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:08 pm

Pump, yes you are supposed to receive a written evaluation. At least, it was that way in the past. It is my experience that the evaluations were not very insightful nor productive. Do not let it define your child's abilities or disabilities. Use your Club and/or High School coach as a resource for that. They see your child a hundred fold more than the ODP coaches and know their strengths, weaknesses, tendencies, habits.

Polo Nono
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Re: New ODP Year

Postby Polo Nono » Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:29 pm

Interesting that there are no comments regarding Baker's resignation from USAWP.

letsbereal
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Re: New ODP Year

Postby letsbereal » Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:38 pm

There is a thread about it.

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