Why is youth water polo suffering? Uneducated refs?

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Nohorsepolo
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Why is youth water polo suffering? Uneducated refs?

Postby Nohorsepolo » Sun Mar 20, 2016 9:56 pm

At OC cup this weekend it came to me why water polo is suffering. It's the complete lack of knowledge in calling the games. USA water polo has no check up on the quality of their refs. None what so ever. The games played Sunday at San Clemente high school the lady and the old man refs were not even close with their knowledge of the game. Every game multipal times pointing in opposite directions. Stopping games to figure out which ref was right or wrong. Just general lack of knowledge of the game. Enough rant. My question is why is there no one from USA water polo checking and rating the refs. Why isn't it mandatory for them to get re certified every year. Is Cullingham the right person for the job or do we need a new head ref that cares.

momofpoloplayer
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Re: Why is youth water polo suffering? Uneducated refs?

Postby momofpoloplayer » Mon Mar 21, 2016 2:35 pm

Youth water polo is suffering because of the annoying parents who second guess coaches and refs.

Youth water polo is suffering because the emphasis on height over skill at early ages [read 12U].

Youth water polo is suffering because tournaments have gotten large and expensive.

Youth water polo is suffering because it isn't fun anymore.

Many moons ago when my son played there would be the occasional parent who was in the face of every coach/ref. Most of us watched and cheered and respected our coaches and refs for their knowledge. There would be many one day, smaller tournaments, and even regular scrimmages between clubs. There were age group tournaments and grade level tournaments which made it seems as though there were different 'seasons'. The smaller tournaments and regular scrimmages allowed the players to get to know each other in a more relaxed setting. Now players don't face each other unless its in a big tournament or unless they have the big money to join ODP. Regular scrimmages are unheard of. Coaches had the freedom to run their practices the way they wanted--even if it meant no practice, or a 'practice' day at the movies. Now parents flip out if every minute of every practice isn't devoted to water polo because it means their kids won't make ODP.

So over-involved parents + expensive costs + early professionalization (i.e. high intensity at the 12U level/emphasis on height/many big tournaments lack of smaller ones) make water polo a losing proposition for many parents. Uneducated refs are the least of water polo's problems.

Nohorsepolo
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Re: Why is youth water polo suffering? Uneducated refs?

Postby Nohorsepolo » Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:21 pm

Polo mom your missing the point. These refs in San Clemente were out of control and were completely uneducated about the game. When 80 percent of the coaches are getting yellow or red cards are they all wrong? Letting teams line up with 7 field players several times because they are too busy to count. Letting sprinters leave early because they are busy talking to the table instead of watching the game. Letting excluded players play because they have no control of the table and communicating with them. The refs glaring at each other because their hands are pointing in different directions. Having to stop play because they don't know the rules. Polo has gotten to big for the current ref pool therefore tourneyments are forced to use substandard refs. Cut down tourneyments size. And at the same time create some sort of rating system for refs that can track their performance or lack of. Just as college professors are rated by their students. Pretty sure these two would have gotten failing grades from almost every team.

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Re: Why is youth water polo suffering? Uneducated refs?

Postby Thersites » Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:01 pm

Nohorsepolo wrote:At OC cup this weekend it came to me why water polo is suffering. It's the complete lack of knowledge in calling the games. USA water polo has no check up on the quality of their refs. None what so ever. The games played Sunday at San Clemente high school the lady and the old man refs were not even close with their knowledge of the game. Every game multipal times pointing in opposite directions. Stopping games to figure out which ref was right or wrong. Just general lack of knowledge of the game. Enough rant. My question is why is there no one from USA water polo checking and rating the refs. Why isn't it mandatory for them to get re certified every year. Is Cullingham the right person for the job or do we need a new head ref that cares.


Is it not time, we take it up with USA Water Polo ( Or whichever "body" sanctions the Ref's?) by signing a petition. The inconsistencies in Referees is due to their lack of knowledge of the games, rules and having not watched Water Polo for years. I'm so mad, I want to go be a Ref!

jacob.hartman
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Re: Why is youth water polo suffering? Uneducated refs?

Postby jacob.hartman » Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:06 pm

...
Nohorsepolo wrote:When 80 percent of the coaches are getting yellow or red cards are they all wrong? Letting teams line up with 7 field players several times because they are too busy to count. Letting sprinters leave early because they are busy talking to the table instead of watching the game. Letting excluded players play because they have no control of the table and communicating with them. The refs glaring at each other because their hands are pointing in different directions. Having to stop play because they don't know the rules.
...

These problems would be easy to ignore if they were isolated issues. All together? Sounds like a big problem.

I'm currently on the mailing list for refs and it seems like every month they are begging for referees. Southern California water polo should be able to have the number of refs to handle a few tournaments on the same weekend, unless of course you have a Kap7/Winterfest dilemma where both tournaments are gigantic. That is a separate issue. There are obviously not enough referees. The reasons for the shortage of referees are not so obvious, but I have several ideas as to why.

1) The game isn't easy to ref. It requires too many decisions from the referee. The rules make this inherently so. I like some of Wolf Wigo's solutions in his articles he's released.
2) Even good refs get slammed by coaches and fans, it's a thankless job. I'm not saying we should be thankful for sub-par refs but as a Tournament Director I would institute certain guidelines to create a positive environment. Active deck managers, scorecards for club behavior, e-mail reminders to club mangers, etc. As the head of a private organization, that would be my right (and IMHO, my obligation) to do so.

I think the systemic issue regarding the referee situation and the numerous problems in the sport is the bureaucratic and centralized nature of USAWP. Referee pay, referee assigning, tournament sanctioning, the rules themselves, pool insurance, etc. It's all done inefficiently by a single entity.

If a club wishes to bypass the inefficient process set forth by USAWP, it should find a way to pay for it's own pool insurance, organize a tournament without USAWP's permission, use the rules it wants to use, select the refs they want and pay them based on a mutual-contract.

The cream will rise to the top.
The rules that are the most fun and easy to understand will be instituted by tournament directors seeking more participating clubs.
The refs that are the most skilled will be sought out and paid accordingly.
The more positive environments will, as a whole, win out over the negative ones.
Poorly ran tournaments will be forced to seek dates not occupied by a highly successful one.

I didn't want to go off on a tangent but I just couldn't help myself. I truly believe the problem with USAWP reffing is a systemic one that can't be bandaged over with better marketing. It's going to require a marketplace of ideas and experiments for someone to find the best solution.

jacob.hartman
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Re: Why is youth water polo suffering? Uneducated refs?

Postby jacob.hartman » Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:36 pm

momofpoloplayer wrote:Youth water polo is suffering because of the annoying parents who second guess coaches and refs.


I think there needs to be better reffing AND parents need to calm down, but there's not much you can do about it. As an individual, all I can do is only ref if I know I can properly do the job, and never unnecessarily react as a fan. Acting like an imbecile is fun in professional sports, not at your kids' game.

momofpoloplayer wrote:Youth water polo is suffering because the emphasis on height over skill at early ages [read 12U].


Yes, but the rules require it. This is what the Balkans countries do and the US is just trying to catch up. I think Coach Dante and Wolf have good ideas when it comes to fixing this problem.

momofpoloplayer wrote:Youth water polo is suffering because tournaments have gotten large and expensive.


It sucks. You either have to dish out a lot of money for your kid to play water polo or not play water polo at all. There is no in-between. I think there is a real need for recreational water polo. There's probably a need for smaller, cheaper, tournaments as well. I guess the marketplace will figure that one out.

momofpoloplayer wrote:Youth water polo is suffering because it isn't fun anymore.


I agree. A lot of times it's not fun for anybody. The refs, parents, athletes, coaches. IMHO it's the rules. But we as consumers can't complain if we keep buying the product. The product is USAWP, and we're granting it an essential monopoly as consumers because we don't see an alternative. It's going to take entrepreneurs to rebuild the sport from the ground up.

Nohorsepolo
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Re: Why is youth water polo suffering? Uneducated refs?

Postby Nohorsepolo » Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:58 pm

These are all great ideas. It comes to the question of what is USA water polo doing for their money. If they are getting a cut of the money shouldn't the head of refs be circulating the tourneyment asking questions interacting with everyone. Cullingham should be present at every tourneyment or at least one of his mentors to check and rate his refs. This way he would have an understanding of what's really going on. In the long run everyone would conform and poor refs would be weeded out. Maybe Ramsey could donate some of his $300,000 a year to help recruit some better talent. I'm not saying all refs are bad but where there are no checks and balances and there is demand poor refs will always get jobs. This does not happen anywhere else in life. If you do crappy work eventually you run out of work.

Pacificblue
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Re: Why is youth water polo suffering? Uneducated refs?

Postby Pacificblue » Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:26 pm

jacob.hartman wrote:
momofpoloplayer wrote: I agree. A lot of times it's not fun for anybody. The refs, parents, athletes, coaches. IMHO it's the rules. But we as consumers can't complain if we keep buying the product. The product is USAWP, and we're granting it an essential monopoly as consumers because we don't see an alternative. It's going to take entrepreneurs to rebuild the sport from the ground up.


I completely agree that the rules are a big part of the problem. Water polo has to be one of the most complicated sports to officiate, in part because of the fact that only a small portion of the action is visible above the water. But, the current rules are doing no one any favors. I believe one of the goals of Wolf Wigo's proposed rule changes a few years back was to drastically simplify the game and make officiating much easier. In fact, I believe it became so simple that he even had players calling their own fouls and self-officiating during scrimmages, a la pick up basketball. By all accounts, it went really well.

The simpler the rules, the easier it is for refs to be trained, and there would be less gray area for "interpretation". I have never witnessed a sport where there is such inconsistency from ref to ref, or from game to game, as the sport of water polo. And it seems to be worse now than ever. Holding a player, impeding them from moving is against the rules, correct? In any given youth water polo tournament, there will be many games where it is almost a free for all of grabbing, holding with two hands, and wrestling all over the pool. A couple games later, with a different set of refs, that same kind of play results in a kick out every time. Meanwhile, the kids are totally confused - it's almost like playing two different sports within the same day.

At the same time, the parents in the stands - most of whom don't understand the rules even when the game is well-officiated - are losing their minds and any sense of decency and decorum along with it. Can make for a really toxic environment.

While everyone seems to be taking their guidance from Europe and FINA for rule changes, I would love to see some of America's brightest polo minds (Wolf and Coach D are at the top of the list, but there are many, many worthy candidates who could add valuable input) construct a set of rules that could be easily implemented and enforced here in the United States, which would also allow for a fun, dynamic and exciting sport that really lets our athletes showcase their talents and the fruits of their hard work in the best possible light.

oldtimer
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Re: Why is youth water polo suffering? Uneducated refs?

Postby oldtimer » Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:26 pm

If I remember my water polo history, there was a time when FINA and AAU had a very different set of rules. Both organizations decided at some point (early 70's) to cooperate and create a set of rules that supposedly brought the best ideas of both. It wasn't long before the governing body in the US decided that adopting whatever FINA decided on was what would make us 'more competitive' on the world stage. Clearly, that was not clear thinking and we seem now to be stuck with that mentality.

That said, from what I have seen it is becoming more and more difficult to find qualified referees. One reason is that the good ones are avoiding the age group contests because it has devolved into a lot of angry parents shouting at referees. I saw that this weekend at a game in the Regency Invite, where a parent was grousing at the referees all game - finally getting a warning. At the end of the game, a kid got into a tousle with an opponent. One of them pushed away to crash on the center to help on defense, and the other came up with a bloody nose. This parent went ballistic - telling the referees how lousy they were, calling them every name in the book and walked out of the pool area ... then continued to shout at them while outside the fence. He then was allowed to reenter the pool area. Who wants to referee under those circumstances - for $20, $30 or even $50?

I think the problems being discussed here are probably somewhat unique to Southern California, where 'results' are more important than the experience. It has become way, way too important to be the coach of a 'top team' and win the 'big events'. It has become way, way too important to be an athlete on a 'top team' and win the 'big events'. Just look at this board - the only real discussions are about either the top 6 or 8 teams in any age group, or the top teams in Division 1 HS. During a spirited discussion in the Div 5 thread this past fall several people made somewhat condescending comments about how it was 'only Division 5' and nobody cares. That's the message being given - and yet the same people will complain about how the sport is being 'ruined' by 'other' parents/coaches/referees/etc.

At the same time, we have seen over the past couple of years multiple events being held on the same weekend. Whether this is motivated by money, power or prestige I don't know - but clubs now have to decide which event to send their teams to depending on 'how competitive' a tournament is going to be. Parents get mad if their athlete is not entered into 'the right tournament'.

The sport is not as fun in Southern California because it is so competitive, the only ones 'having fun' are those who play for the very top teams - and I suspect that even they feel a lot of stress. Those playing for lesser teams either get pushed too hard by their coaches, or by their parents. And when they get better, they get moved to a 'better club'. Or the parents running the team push for 'better coaches' - which means coaches who are focused primarily on 'results' rather than teaching the athlete life skills and good sportsmanship. Seriously - what future does any water polo athlete have? Oh yeah, playing for a college that won't offer a scholarship but will expect 5 hours a day of dedication, with no future professional career. Woohoo! ;-)

Don't get me wrong - if the athlete is driven and wants it, I see no problem with providing that athlete with every opportunity. But when it is driven by the parents and coaches, and the athletes are being burned out - as are the referees - we have a problem that is *not* because of USAWP or Jim Cullingham. And yes, I am probably being somewhat hyperbolic in my statements here - but I do see this trend just in the 6 years I've been involved. Those I speak to who have been involved longer say it was not always this crazy, and it seems to be getting worse.

Finally - USAWP does not get off easy here. I've complained about the referee training for several years - as most of it seems to be 'on deck', which I think is just disrespectful to the athletes who have to deal with it. There must be a way for clubs and USAWP to coordinate by holding scrimmages and training camps for referees, where games can be played that are not used to qualify or seed for JOs, and referees can get experience (and so can the coaches). The way it is handled now seems ridiculous - and both clubs and USAWP are responsible. Clubs should be clamoring to help train referees, in my opinion.

OK, that's my rant... :-)

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Re: Why is youth water polo suffering? Uneducated refs?

Postby Pacificblue » Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:13 pm

oldtimer wrote: The sport is not as fun in Southern California because it is so competitive, the only ones 'having fun' are those who play for the very top teams - and I suspect that even they feel a lot of stress. Those playing for lesser teams either get pushed too hard by their coaches, or by their parents. And when they get better, they get moved to a 'better club'. Or the parents running the team push for 'better coaches' - which means coaches who are focused primarily on 'results' rather than teaching the athlete life skills and good sportsmanship. Seriously - what future does any water polo athlete have? Oh yeah, playing for a college that won't offer a scholarship but will expect 5 hours a day of dedication, with no future professional career. Woohoo! ;-)

Don't get me wrong - if the athlete is driven and wants it, I see no problem with providing that athlete with every opportunity. But when it is driven by the parents and coaches, and the athletes are being burned out - as are the referees - we have a problem that is *not* because of USAWP or Jim Cullingham. And yes, I am probably being somewhat hyperbolic in my statements here - but I do see this trend just in the 6 years I've been involved. Those I speak to who have been involved longer say it was not always this crazy, and it seems to be getting worse.


You raise some excellent points here, but I don't think those issues quoted above are unique to water polo in Southern California. In fact, what you are addressing speaks to a large problem within our youth sports culture. I know for a fact that club volleyball, club soccer and baseball, to name a few, are rife with the same exact problems that you just cited. True, those sports may have more collegiate/professional opportunities than water polo - so maybe there are slightly more realistic rewards down the line for the dedicate athlete - but the fact remains that they are all inundated with hyper-competitive parents and a "results are all that matters" mentality.

I fear it is a bigger cultural issue and a symptom of our society - and that element will persist regardless of rule changes in our sport or more consistent reffing. But, I do think ours can become a better game with the right leadership and vision.

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Re: Why is youth water polo suffering? Uneducated refs?

Postby Rbpolo0414 » Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:12 pm

Doesn't USAWP have to sanction these tournaments? If so, why would they allow more than 1 tournament on a given weekend?

I think the club culture has ruined all youth sports. Baseball, Soccer, volleyball, Aau basketball, lacrosse,etc. They all have the same problem (overzealous parents pushing their kids to specialize to get thAt scholarship or be the next pro baseball player). Someone tell me if I'm wrong, but I believe this started in the last 10-12 years. I'm coming up on my 20 year reunion this year, and there were not as many clubs as there are today. You might have one club that covered a 25 mile radius. Kids played different sports with the change in seasons. I grew up in The southbay and there were no water polo clubs (Trojan, PV, South Bay united did not exist). I wish they did, as I could of been better if I started earlier. But I also might of quit from the burnout of being in a pool year round, good weather and bad. I'd be curious to know how many kids love playing water polo year round and how many actually prefer playing one season or two but are forced to play all year by their parents. Would you be better off in the long run splitting time with a swim team for half the year? Are you actually better off not being at a super club with less pressure to win, while still learning the fundamentals that are necessary to be successful in high school?

oldtimer
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Re: Why is youth water polo suffering? Uneducated refs?

Postby oldtimer » Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:38 pm

Pacificblue wrote:You raise some excellent points here, but I don't think those issues quoted above are unique to water polo in Southern California. In fact, what you are addressing speaks to a large problem within our youth sports culture. I know for a fact that club volleyball, club soccer and baseball, to name a few, are rife with the same exact problems that you just cited. True, those sports may have more collegiate/professional opportunities than water polo - so maybe there are slightly more realistic rewards down the line for the dedicate athlete - but the fact remains that they are all inundated with hyper-competitive parents and a "results are all that matters" mentality.

I fear it is a bigger cultural issue and a symptom of our society - and that element will persist regardless of rule changes in our sport or more consistent reffing. But, I do think ours can become a better game with the right leadership and vision.


You are correct, of course. And I know that there are sports with crazier parents than water polo (try figure skating sometime). I did admit to being a bit hyperbolic, so I'll use that as my excuse...

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Re: Why is youth water polo suffering? Uneducated refs?

Postby jacob.hartman » Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:57 pm

oldtimer wrote:Don't get me wrong - if the athlete is driven and wants it, I see no problem with providing that athlete with every opportunity. But when it is driven by the parents and coaches, and the athletes are being burned out - as are the referees - we have a problem that is *not* because of USAWP or Jim Cullingham. And yes, I am probably being somewhat hyperbolic in my statements here - but I do see this trend just in the 6 years I've been involved. Those I speak to who have been involved longer say it was not always this crazy, and it seems to be getting worse.


I agree, it is definitely not Jim Cullingham's fault. He is one person. It's also not necessarily USAWP's fault, they are merely providing a service to paying customers. That being said, I do believe USAWP is putting out an inferior product and if they don't do something quick, they will lose customers to other sports and/or another water polo organization.

I believe they could fix many problems including angry parents and unprofessional officials with a few key changes. I'm not holding my breath though. There are clear signs of incompetence. One example being they haven't even set up a stream of the national league games. It's 2016. That's why clubs need to take charge, trailblaze a new paradigm, and be proactive in providing an alternative to the monolith. The customers will follow.

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Re: Why is youth water polo suffering? Uneducated refs?

Postby wtrp0l0 » Tue Mar 22, 2016 2:52 pm

1.) Entitled parents (most who never played water polo) who drive away well meaning club admins, referees and coaches when they think their athlete is being treated unfairly. This is a problem with many youth activities (not just sports or water polo) in the US.
1a. Parents should never talk to an official, that is the coaches and club admin's job. You may not like the officiating during a game but I know these underpaid and over scheduled refs are putting forth their best effort. If you don't like how they ref, then step up, take a course on water polo officiating, and help out with the lack of qualified officials. Stop complaining about the problem, help fix the ref issue instead if it's so bad.
1b. Parents frequently pull their athlete from a club or hassle a coach if their athlete is not getting enough playing time. If your athlete wants more playing time they need to work harder, put in more time doing extra swimming, cross training, more practice. Having mom or dad complain to a coach about playing time doesn't make the athlete a better player. If your athlete is being treated unfairly, find another club instead of riling up the masses, getting out the pitch forks and chasing way well meaning coaches and volunteers. Talk with your checkbook not your mouth. If a coach or club admin is really that bad or unfair, people will stop playing for the team and program will tank.

2.) Lack of opportunities outside of CA for water polo players. Most regions in the US do not have all deep pools or qualified coaches to help teach water polo basics. Regions with little to no water polo presence offer no local leagues, so even getting games once a month is a challenge. With no consistent games available it's very hard to entice 10u and 12u athletes to play water polo. Games are the fun part but there are no games to be played for a 12u water polo player in Illinois, who is around to play against? Teams from outside of CA usually have to travel to play in tournaments which gets expensive, thus only a certain demographic from outside of the California seems to play water polo. Just look at our men's and women's senior national teams, most of the athletes come from California. Also only one team outside of CA has ever won JO's, only CA universities have won the NCAA title? Talk about no parity. I have to assume American water polo clubs, high schools and colleges are missing out on some very talented athletes from around the country, simply because there is zero access to our great sport.

3.) American water polo players tend to come from fairly well to do communities, all have similar backgrounds and this lack of diversity hurts our sport. http://theodysseyonline.com/pitzer-college/white-washed-drowning/370402. Our senior national team roster is a great example of how uniform water polo players in the US tend to be.

4.) Professionalism of club teams. More and more club coaches now make a living running club teams so recruiting top talent, winning big name tournaments and putting athletes on NCAA rosters is how they pay the bills. Can you blame them and/or is this ok? The high level of competition for recruiting and winning takes some of the fun out of the game and puts immense pressure on young kids. It's not all bad as kids develop skills more quickly, coaching is much better and level of play at younger ages seems to be higher than in the past. However these top programs are limited to families that can afford to pay fees and travel to big name tournaments. This system eliminates many potential water polo players from realizing their potential (or even getting involved with water polo), simply because of cost.

5.) The governing body for water polo in the US does not care about growing water polo. If USAWP really wanted growth they would be focused on grass roots programs across the country aimed at bringing water polo to young athletes. I see no programs like this offered by USAWP. Splashball is a marketing tool, not a development program to grow water polo. ODP is a fundraiser for USAWP, not a growth initiative. Hosting a camp for two weekends in the midwest does not develop or grow water polo in the area long term. ODP keeps clubs and kids who already love water polo committed to USAWP, it does not grow the sport or attract new kids. The growth of water polo at the youth level in the US is facilitated by HS and club programs, not USAWP. It is the coaches, parents and volunteers that must drive the growth of our great sport. If we wait for USAWP or someone else to do it, we will be waiting a long time. If USAWP really wanted to grow water polo they would have presence in all 50 states with representatives working to create youth, club and HS teams all across the country.

5a. The water polo community is stuck with USAWP as long as the perception exists that athletes can only be a successful NCAA water polo players if they do well at the Junior Olympics and participate in ODP. Most NCAA coaches attend JO's and the NTSC to recruit top talent from established club teams. JO's and ODP are the ONLY two venues to get serious looks from NCAA coaches for athletes outside of CA (unless an athlete attends a camp). I would assume USAWP generates most of their revenue from three main sources: Membership fees, Junior Olympic Tournament Fees and ODP participation fees. If coaches and clubs make the commitment to host their own national championships, refuse to sign up for JO's ($1000 entry fee? what happened to economies of scale where more teams = cheaper tournament fees?) and ODP, USAWP would be forced to change how they operate. Established clubs will not make this push as most of the top clubs have coaches who work for ODP, they are afraid that removing JO's from the schedule will prompt their players to switch clubs. People have bought into USAWP being the only insurance provider for water polo clubs (this is not true, AWP offers some good alternatives). I agree with Jacob that USAWP does not offer a quality service , but poor service is what you get from a monopolistic situation. I encourage the top CA clubs to host their own open national championships the same week as JO's. If you have Stanford, Vanguard, SOCAL, Shores, Foothill, Rose Bowl, Premiere, Regency, Northwood, 680, Santa Barbara, CDM, Huntington, Lamorinda, etc. all doing a different tournament than JO's, other clubs will follow.

Another rant is over... if we want better youth polo we need to provide more opportunities for kids (that don't have high costs) and parents need to let coaches/referees do their job without fear of being crucified every time they make a minor mistake, demand more from an athlete or bench a player.

Nohorsepolo
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Re: Why is youth water polo suffering? Uneducated refs?

Postby Nohorsepolo » Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:50 pm

Jacob. I believe Jim cullingham is the root of the officiating problem. It starts at the top. Why is there not more activity on the training front for refs. Why are refs not being trained during the week at different team practices with the assistance of elder refs. Why are refs not made to attend mandatory certification. Why are they not making more money to make the training worth while. This is a direct reflection of USA water polo and I'm not proud of it.

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