NCAA Finals Predictions 2013

Mens College Water Polo
sidelineview
Posts: 569
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:26 pm

Re: NCAA Finals Predictions 2013

Postby sidelineview » Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:49 pm

The other factor that supports the men's basketball number is very simple: money. By expanding the tournament (it used to be 16 back in the 1970's), the NCAA has a huge "March Madness" contract with CBS and TNT: $10.8 billion to be paid between the years 2011-2024.

polo68
Posts: 91
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:55 pm
How are you connected to water polo?: Parent of players.

Re: NCAA Finals Predictions 2013

Postby polo68 » Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:41 pm

Yes, money is probably the issue, so why not let the 7th and 8th seeded schools pay for their own teams' expenses to travel, etc., in order to be in the tournanment? It would benefit the schools to be able to say they went to the big show. Why would the NCAA care as log as they weren't footing the bill? The extra games would not cost that much, and the NCAA could tack on a nominal charge to the school to cover the referees, desk, pool staff, etc. Each extra game could probably be done for what, $1000 or less? And make the tournament three days: Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Let the bottom four play each other out to a placing, like the MPSF tournament.

Also, the one-and-done game format is a bad use of the time of an east coast team. If St. Francis had lost, they would've flown back home right away, but they would still miss Friday classes, more than likely, because of time zones. That means that they would have thus lost three days of class time to play in one game. Better to miss only two days, and play in 3 games.

sidelineview
Posts: 569
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:26 pm

Re: NCAA Finals Predictions 2013

Postby sidelineview » Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:12 pm

The cost to properly send/host each team is approximately $20K. That's big money for most water polo budgets.

MikeFromBrooklyn
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:22 am
How are you connected to water polo?: Writer on water polo for Swimming World, Total Water Polo, Water Polo World

Re: NCAA Finals Predictions 2013

Postby MikeFromBrooklyn » Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:18 pm

Is there no chatter about today's SFC/USC match? I did not make the trip to Stanford but am eagerly awaiting today's contest. As a casual observer, of course I want to believe the Terriers have a "puncher's chance" to make a game of it with the Trojans - especially if Igor Mladenovic continues his torrid play.

However, if SFC is to make it a competitive match, it seems to me that there's some unsung player - perhaps Liam Veazey, Nathan Kotylak or Luka Vukomanovic - who will step up.

What's the consensus here at WPP? Am I just drinking too much hyper-caffinated expresso in a fancy Brooklyn coffee shop? Or, does anyone else think this game will be closer than expected?

Oh, and I am hoping UOP makes it to the finals - especially after Stanford declined to stream Thursday's games!

Mike from Brooklyn

yayareapolo
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:43 pm
How are you connected to water polo?: Player

Re: NCAA Finals Predictions 2013

Postby yayareapolo » Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:36 pm

st. francis early in the season got trounced heavily by stanford, but have really turned it on of late. playing against them, they do have some guys that can play with anyone, but on the whole I don't think are disciplined enough to hang with a USC. they might keep it close early on, but I wouldn't give them a chance of ending it within 5 goals.

User avatar
Moderator
Site Admin
Posts: 3911
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 8:00 pm
Location: All Planet All The Time
Contact:

Re: NCAA Finals Predictions 2013

Postby Moderator » Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:50 pm

I always enjoy watching St Francis at NCAA's. Most of the players have to hold jobs throughout the season to pay for room and board, they train in a shallow deep pool and lack the year round training opportunities of the MPSF teams. It's hard not to want them to thrive as an underdog. Talent wise, every St Francis team has the raw ability to compete with any team in the country- the question is whether their conditioning can hang in there.

gonut
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:50 pm
How are you connected to water polo?: fan

Re: NCAA Finals Predictions 2013

Postby gonut » Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:09 pm

are todays games going to be streamed?

jw54
Posts: 229
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 4:29 pm

Re: NCAA Finals Predictions 2013

Postby jw54 » Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:10 pm

sideline view wrote
The cost to properly send/host each team is approximately $20K. That's big money for most water polo budgets.


I agree 100%. While I love the game of water polo and want to see it expand, here is the bottom line for most (not all) athletic departments--water polo is a money loser, and ADs are focused very much on their bottom line --they have to be, or they are out. Consequently most ADs focus on their programs that are high profile, have the potential to pay for themselves, and hopefully earn enough to subsidize the other teams.

I can't speak for private universities and their capacity for creative accounting, but within realm of public Division I universities, here is the issue.

4.5 Scholarships--if those are fully funded then, at least within the UC system we are talking approximately $32,000.00 (full ride)=$144,000. This is not funny money--it is charged to the athletic departments budget
Head Coach salary--anywhere from 60K-100K plus benefits
Operating budget for season= approx 50k-100K
Recruiting budget==5-20K
Assistant coach=20-50K

So you have a sport that is costing anywhere from 200-400K and as the AD you stroll out to catch a Saturday, mid-season game on your campus----maybe, just maybe there is 500 people attending, you look around, few students attending, it is obvious there are lots of parents and friends (and many of those got into the game for free), there is absolutely no major media present, you overhear people actually "bitching" about the price of admittance (or you notice that there is no charge to get into the game at all) The impression for most ADs is simply--this sport costs money and except for a few games (rivalry games) or conference championship --no one is really interested--better focus on football and basketball.

Yes, there are exceptions, but when it is stated that programs would pay their own way to get into the "big show"--there is no big show, there is no big TV contract, there is no large media presence, and the outcome is, year in and year out the exact same--the winner will be USC, or UCLA, or Stanford or Cal. Consequently, if the tournament was expanded, unless the NCAA guaranteed expenses, many ADs would have little enthusiasm to pump money into a sport that has no broad appeal and only hurts their bottom line.

I know I sound cynical--but I have learned one thing--it is all about the marketing (impact) and the money (the bottom line) and when it comes to water polo (and some other Olympic sports), this is the biggest hurdle.

This could all change--water polo is growing at the club and high school level and with the growing realization that football is actually very very bad for your brain, fewer kids will play, and many may come to water polo--so overtime this could change, but right now the scenario I have outline pretty much tells the story.

Jim Hicks
Irvine

User avatar
Moderator
Site Admin
Posts: 3911
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 8:00 pm
Location: All Planet All The Time
Contact:

Re: NCAA Finals Predictions 2013

Postby Moderator » Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:13 pm

gonut wrote:are todays games going to be streamed?


Yes. Here is the link

http://www.ncaa.com/liveschedule/2013/12/07

Apghrenegade
Posts: 241
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 6:05 pm
How are you connected to water polo?: Active player in open and masters tournaments; part time shooting coach; players mentor and advocate; author of a shooting clinic; 37 years playing experience spanning east coast USA, southern California, and europe; pro bono efforts for USA WP

Re: NCAA Finals Predictions 2013

Postby Apghrenegade » Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:29 pm

Actually, I think St Francis is more like USC in the discipline and water polo system aspects than any other ncaa D1 program. And that is because Serbia and Montenegro systems of play were at one time unified....and are still rather close cousins.

As for the game, I am a realist. The problem for St Francis is inadequate depth compared to USC, not enough regular high intensity games all season long, and therefore inferior all over conditioning/fitness. The simple rule is you are never too fit for water polo. The way the game stays close for longer is the role of Mladenovich, who has fundamentals and reactions that are a joy to watch. Shooting psychology develops within games, and within the minds of shooters, as each game progresses. Best case for St Francis is like the game 2 or 3 years ago that was a 1-3 goal game all the way into the 4th quarter...not an easy cruise for USC. Most likely case is a loss by 5. A blowout by 8 or 10 goals is also possible.

oneeyeddeacon
Posts: 215
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:46 pm

Re: NCAA Finals Predictions 2013

Postby oneeyeddeacon » Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:58 pm

Spectacular game by UOP against Stanford, winning 11-10.

GoPacific
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:14 am
How are you connected to water polo?: Played water polo

Re: NCAA Finals Predictions 2013

Postby GoPacific » Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:32 pm

oneeyeddeacon wrote:Spectacular game by UOP against Stanford, winning 11-10.


Unfortunately had to miss this, is there a replay anywhere?


GoPacific
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:14 am
How are you connected to water polo?: Played water polo

Re: NCAA Finals Predictions 2013

Postby GoPacific » Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:40 pm


dwpc69
Posts: 119
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:30 pm
How are you connected to water polo?: fan

Re: NCAA Finals Predictions 2013

Postby dwpc69 » Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:05 am

Moderator wrote:I always enjoy watching St Francis at NCAA's. Most of the players have to hold jobs throughout the season to pay for room and board, they train in a shallow deep pool and lack the year round training opportunities of the MPSF teams. It's hard not to want them to thrive as an underdog. Talent wise, every St Francis team has the raw ability to compete with any team in the country- the question is whether their conditioning can hang in there.


Out of 15 (or so) players on St Francis roster all but three are foreign (quite a few Serbians and Hungarians, a Swede, a Canadian). How on Earth has their coach managed to attract them to Brooklyn if he can give very few scholarships?

Return to “Mens Varsity Water Polo”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest