NCAAs

Mens College Water Polo
retiredguy
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Re: NCAAs

Postby retiredguy » Sun Dec 06, 2015 1:39 am

I think Cal's inexperience at this level did them in today. They had plenty of opportunities to score more including the 2 missed 5m shots by Hooper and Cupido. Boy, Hooper is a game changer though that guy just makes stuff happen. Baron sure brought his A+ game today. He made the goal look tiny, and Cal couldn't finish shots.

Still think SC gets beat handily by UCLA tomorrow. UCLA's passing is so much better than any of these teams. They never made a bad pass or dropped a ball the entire game against UCSD. Both SC and Cal's passing looked mediocre compared to UCLA.

madone
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Re: NCAAs

Postby madone » Sun Dec 06, 2015 3:30 am

ucla may win, but jovan remains the best coach in my mind. they looked very ready to play today. cal looked lost on 6-5. jovan is maybe the best to coach in the states. so impressive.

Rbpolo0414
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Re: NCAAs

Postby Rbpolo0414 » Sun Dec 06, 2015 3:32 pm

Hooper is going to be really good. He is an electric swimmer that should be used in an offense that is constantly countering. I thought he should have asserted himself more on 6 on 5 where he was at point. They ended up shooting from the wing too much and that is too easy for Baron. They seem to be lacking at the center position. I felt like they struggled to get position all night. Too bad Hallock isn't going there, as they would be special. USC center on the other hand, had position all night. That is going to be a great matchup between him and UCLA's 2m defender.

onespot
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Re: NCAAs

Postby onespot » Sun Dec 06, 2015 5:03 pm

I agree he is the best coach out there, he has his boys ready for the big games . Always changing it up .. UCLA is a well oiled machine a lot of talent , but if anybody could beat them it's USC and Jovan .. Fight On

Rbpolo0414
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Re: NCAAs

Postby Rbpolo0414 » Sun Dec 06, 2015 6:41 pm

So much depth at UCLA. I see this as a 3 goal margin for UCLA and probably more. It will be difficult to score for USC. It's debatable who the best goalie in the pool is but Baron will have to be as good as he was in the semis to have any chance.

JPSchmack
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Re: NCAAs

Postby JPSchmack » Sun Dec 06, 2015 9:30 pm

madone wrote:ucla may win, but jovan remains the best coach in my mind. they looked very ready to play today. cal looked lost on 6-5. jovan is maybe the best to coach in the states. so impressive.


You know what would be really cool? If they did a summer alumni tournament with past players from USC, UCLA, Stanford, Cal, UOP, UCSB, two of UCI/LBSU/Pepperdine … and traded coaches.

Do the standings over the last 12 years or so to seed the teams.
Rank the coaches by career win percentage, and pair Coach 1 with Team 8, Coach 7 with Team 2, etc.

Wouldn’t it be fascinating to see what Graham or Wigo could do with Pac-12 rosters? Or if Vavic could coach the eighth best roster into an upset of his own guys?

HawkinsPolo4
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Re: NCAAs

Postby HawkinsPolo4 » Sun Dec 06, 2015 9:51 pm

Rbpolo0414 wrote:So much depth at UCLA. I see this as a 3 goal margin for UCLA and probably more. It will be difficult to score for USC. It's debatable who the best goalie in the pool is but Baron will have to be as good as he was in the semis to have any chance.


Definitely agree, that there is a lot of depth at UCLA and that USC will have their work cut out for them when it comes to scoring. But keep in mind, that Danner made 19 saves against USC when they had their MPSF matchup. Now as impressive as that sounds, a strong defense would not allow 19 on frame shot attempts to happen, period. With that said, if the Bruins expect a win they're going to really have to be as sound with their defense as they are on offense.

oneeyeddeacon
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Re: NCAAs

Postby oneeyeddeacon » Sun Dec 06, 2015 9:59 pm

HawkinsPolo4 wrote: But keep in mind, that Danner made 19 saves against USC when they had their MPSF matchup. Now as impressive as that sounds, a strong defense would not allow 19 on frame shot attempts to happen, period.


That's not true at all. Did you watch the UCLA-UCSD game? Danner had 19 saves because the defense forced bad shots that Danner could easily block.

HawkinsPolo4
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Re: NCAAs

Postby HawkinsPolo4 » Sun Dec 06, 2015 10:27 pm

oneeyeddeacon wrote:
HawkinsPolo4 wrote: But keep in mind, that Danner made 19 saves against USC when they had their MPSF matchup. Now as impressive as that sounds, a strong defense would not allow 19 on frame shot attempts to happen, period.


That's not true at all. Did you watch the UCLA-UCSD game? Danner had 19 saves because the defense forced bad shots that Danner could easily block.


Now while they did force bad shots, should it always be up to the goalkeeper to make the saves? I would like to think not, because what would be the point of having a 2 Meter Defender or a defensive line? The goalie doesn't always equal defense, but rather make up 85-90 percent of defense. The other 15-10 comes from the field players who are playing defense.

Which is why again, a strong defense shouldn't force the goalkeeper to make every. single. save.

Teamwork makes the dream work.

Rbpolo0414
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Re: NCAAs

Postby Rbpolo0414 » Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:20 am

Great championship game. Hats off to USC for keeping it close until the end.

madone
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Re: NCAAs

Postby madone » Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:47 am

it was one game, but Baron and Danner looked about the same. it's clear that Baron is vulnerable over the head, but I never saw a block by Danner that was magical or inspiring. USC's shooting was pretty bad throughout and pretty shot everything right at Danner down the stretch. (lob shot off the time out to get within one?!) They also hit tons of bars in the first half. They don't hit the bars, they win the game. If you gotta pick a guy based on the biggest game of the year, I'd take the younger guy whose got 7 inches on the other.

Happy to hear that I'm dead wrong on this one. Maybe others saw something else.

PoloParity
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Re: NCAAs

Postby PoloParity » Mon Dec 07, 2015 1:28 pm

madone wrote:it was one game, but Baron and Danner looked about the same. it's clear that Baron is vulnerable over the head, but I never saw a block by Danner that was magical or inspiring. USC's shooting was pretty bad throughout and pretty shot everything right at Danner down the stretch. (lob shot off the time out to get within one?!) They also hit tons of bars in the first half. They don't hit the bars, they win the game. If you gotta pick a guy based on the biggest game of the year, I'd take the younger guy whose got 7 inches on the other.

Happy to hear that I'm dead wrong on this one. Maybe others saw something else.


I think Danner looked great, especially as he seems to have got into the heads of USC shooters. Baron, despite his great performance on Saturday, looked weaker and did not force UCLA to make too many bad shots. They are very different goalies. Baron has the size and maybe because of it, looks slow at times. He can make spectacular lunges. Danner has the speed and much better anticipation which I think makes him a better goalie.

Rbpolo0414
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Re: NCAAs

Postby Rbpolo0414 » Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:21 pm

PoloParity wrote:
madone wrote:it was one game, but Baron and Danner looked about the same. it's clear that Baron is vulnerable over the head, but I never saw a block by Danner that was magical or inspiring. USC's shooting was pretty bad throughout and pretty shot everything right at Danner down the stretch. (lob shot off the time out to get within one?!) They also hit tons of bars in the first half. They don't hit the bars, they win the game. If you gotta pick a guy based on the biggest game of the year, I'd take the younger guy whose got 7 inches on the other.

Happy to hear that I'm dead wrong on this one. Maybe others saw something else.


I think Danner looked great, especially as he seems to have got into the heads of USC shooters. Baron, despite his great performance on Saturday, looked weaker and did not force UCLA to make too many bad shots. They are very different goalies. Baron has the size and maybe because of it, looks slow at times. He can make spectacular lunges. Danner has the speed and much better anticipation which I think makes him a better goalie.


UCLA made its fair share of outside shots, with maybe a goal or two from inside. USC had more success at 2m (especially on 6/5) and was pretty bad from outside. Danner did get a lot of easy saves which I would chalk up to some stellar defense from their field players. I only remember 3 posts from USC, so I don't think you could say they win if they make those. That is not a good argument.

madone
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Re: NCAAs

Postby madone » Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:56 pm

sc hit at least two posts when they were up 3-1. a 5-1 or 6-1 lead would be significant for ucla to overcome.

Ucla's 8th and 9th goals were impressive shots. Ramirez, Daboe and Irving scored some great shots on Baron. USC had two shots like that to open the game and couldn't find that mojo later. Ramirez's shot was one of the best. He brought the shot-blocker and baron to the near post and then went cross-cage. Irving went near-side power and Daboe played with baron for four years. All great shots worthy of a title. I just never thought Baron was outplayed. He made some nice blocks and didn't have the same defensive play in front of him. He had very few shots straight into his chest.

oldtimer
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Re: NCAAs

Postby oldtimer » Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:34 pm

The problem with subjective evaluations is that they are subjective, and therefore are based upon preconceived ideas. That's why I prefer actual data - which we will almost certainly not get unless Mr. Graham took stats and is free to provide that data (unlikely. :-)

I described a situation in a completely different section where there was a 6'11" goalie vs a 5'9" goalie. The stats throughout the season looked almost exactly the same - whether against outside shots, shots from center, 6-on-5, whatever - they were only a percentage point or two apart. Yet, many raved about the 6'11" goalie, but said little about the 5'9" goalie. You would think it should be the other way - because the expectations of the taller goalie would be greater, and it should be harder to impress. But the reality was that exactly the opposite occurred. Every save by the big goalie was considered 'phenomenal'. Most saves by the short goalie was 'routine'. Clearly, that simply doesn't make sense in a 30 game season, yet that is what essentially occurred.

As an aside, there is a reason that most companies now require managers to document their reviews with numbers rather than simply give subjective good-bad reviews....

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