2019 NCAA Championships

Mens College Water Polo
SwimCoach
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Re: 2019 NCAA Championships

Postby SwimCoach » Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:31 pm

Not to get too far off topic, but who was the pre-season favorite to win the NWPC this year?

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Re: 2019 NCAA Championships

Postby dadonthedeck » Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:40 pm

Slim made some observations in the post below but I'm not sure there there was a consensus on a favorite.

viewtopic.php?p=121918#p121918

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Re: 2019 NCAA Championships

Postby wpolo93 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:59 pm

dadonthedeck wrote:You think that's going to make the difference? I'd suggest not. You also cannot achieve the level of the top 8 programs unless without equal practice schedules. And no way that's ever going to happen.

Am I the only one who remembers the Ivy League's limits on practice?


If the East Coast teams do not aspire (eventually) to swim with the big boys then perhaps stop overemphasizing "perfect seasons". I got tired of hearing about it this year.

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Re: 2019 NCAA Championships

Postby dadonthedeck » Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:08 am

Not perfect. Just Amazing.

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Re: 2019 NCAA Championships

Postby wpolo93 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:14 am

whatever :)

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Re: 2019 NCAA Championships

Postby Rbpolo0414 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:35 am

2nd best in the East is definitely an Amazing accomplishment. Moving on...

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Re: 2019 NCAA Championships

Postby ephpolo » Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:30 am

I sense the usual California-centric view of eastern water polo--and that view is generally well-earned by eastern teams that have not been competitive with the Big Four. As for reasons for the difference, keep in mind that only Brown, Princeton, and Harvard are limited by Ivy League limits on training and recruiting. I think the bigger issue is distance from the US center of the sport in California, which makes it harder to attract top talent, harder to schedule games against the nation's top teams, and harder to get your players good competition.

East coast water polo will get more competitive when there are more competitive high school and club programs in the East providing talent. There is only so much we can expect from teams who are recruiting from a handful of eastern clubs and the relatively few CA players who are good enough to play for the Big Four but choose to go 3,000 miles from home for college.

As for Harvard's unbeaten season until the Bucknell game, it was a real accomplishment for Harvard. If I were Harvard's coach and athletics information director I'd be talking it up, too. But I bet both Ted and the players would have rather lost an early season game than the one to Bucknell.

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Re: 2019 NCAA Championships

Postby dadonthedeck » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:03 am

ephpolo wrote:As for Harvard's unbeaten season until the Bucknell game, it was a real accomplishment for Harvard. If I were Harvard's coach and athletics information director I'd be talking it up, too. But I bet both Ted and the players would have rather lost an early season game than the one to Bucknell.

I don’t know. This week is Harvard’s reading period before finals. I’d guess missing a cross country trip is a mixed blessing for some of the players.

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Re: 2019 NCAA Championships

Postby wpolo93 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:21 pm

The topic of East Coast college water polo is endless and all arguments are well rehearsed. I have no desire to dive even deeper. But talking about “amazing season”, I suggest the following mental exercise. Let us assume that Harvard had those say 4 games against Big 4 in September- October. Would their program have been as busy promoting amazing 15-4, then 20-4, then 25-4 season in November?

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Re: 2019 NCAA Championships

Postby desertbeachkid » Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:29 pm

BTW
NCAA website says that live streaming will be available at ncaa.com.

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Re: 2019 NCAA Championships

Postby 2plyBathingSuit » Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:48 pm

dadonthedeck wrote:
ephpolo wrote:As for Harvard's unbeaten season until the Bucknell game, it was a real accomplishment for Harvard. If I were Harvard's coach and athletics information director I'd be talking it up, too. But I bet both Ted and the players would have rather lost an early season game than the one to Bucknell.

I don’t know. This week is Harvard’s reading period before finals. I’d guess missing a cross country trip is a mixed blessing for some of the players.


You may be on to sumpthin dad. Last year Princeton upset Harvard and won the NWPC Championship. Subsequently, their first round NCAA game was against the mid-Atlantic winner GW. In that game, Princeton went up 4 or 5 goals in the third...but, Princeton ended up losing that game. I heard a rumor that there were some individuals that didn't want to win that game because finals were coming up as well...and if had they won, their 2nd round game in CA would have been against UCLA. Am I beginning to see an Ivy League pattern here?

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Re: 2019 NCAA Championships

Postby ephpolo » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:35 pm

2plyBathingSuit wrote:
dadonthedeck wrote:
ephpolo wrote:As for Harvard's unbeaten season until the Bucknell game, it was a real accomplishment for Harvard. If I were Harvard's coach and athletics information director I'd be talking it up, too. But I bet both Ted and the players would have rather lost an early season game than the one to Bucknell.

I don’t know. This week is Harvard’s reading period before finals. I’d guess missing a cross country trip is a mixed blessing for some of the players.


Am I beginning to see an Ivy League pattern here?


Well, Stanford is as elite an institution as Harvard and Princeton, and their exams start 12/9. (Harvard's start 12/10.) Think we'll see Stanford tanking so they can go study?

USC gets a break. Their exams don't start until 12/11.

And lucky Bucknell gets all the way to 12/12.


I was sitting right over Harvard's bench for half the game and could hear the conversation at timeouts and quarter breaks. They did not have a good answer to Bucknell's big three, but not for lack of both coaches and players trying.

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Re: 2019 NCAA Championships

Postby ItsaCaliforniaGame » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:12 pm

East Coast teams will never compete with California teams for the very fact, a) they practice together maybe 4 months in late summer/Fall ( Mid August through November) b) Ivies are limited to 12 hrs practice a week during season. Hence, the players are not the shape of their California counterparts nor repetition of drills/games. etc.

ephpolo wrote:I sense the usual California-centric view of eastern water polo--and that view is generally well-earswned by eastern teams that have not been competitive with the Big Four. As for reasons for the difference, keep in mind that only Brown, Princeton, and Harvard are limited by Ivy League limits on training and recruiting. I think the bigger issue is distance from the US center of the sport in California, which makes it harder to attract top talent, harder to schedule games against the nation's top teams, and harder to get your players good competition.

East coast water polo will get more competitive when there are more competitive high school and club programs in the East providing talent. There is only so much we can expect from teams who are recruiting from a handful of eastern clubs and the relatively few CA players who are good enough to play for the Big Four but choose to go 3,000 miles from home for college.

As for Harvard's unbeaten season until the Bucknell game, it was a real accomplishment for Harvard. If I were Harvard's coach and athletics information director I'd be talking it up, too. But I bet both Ted and the players would have rather lost an early season game than the one to Bucknell.

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Re: 2019 NCAA Championships

Postby ephpolo » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:54 pm

ItsaCaliforniaGame wrote:East Coast teams will never compete with California teams for the very fact, a) they practice together maybe 4 months in late summer/Fall ( Mid August through November) b) Ivies are limited to 12 hrs practice a week during season. Hence, the players are not the shape of their California counterparts nor repetition of drills/games. etc.


I think "a" is probably valid. As for "b", I don't think that' true. The Ivies limit practice to 20 hours per week, which I think is an NCAA rule. They do have rules that require a day off every week and a period after travel when no athletic activities can be required, and some institutions may have their own, stricter, limits.

Brown's rules from 2018, via Google: https://brownbears.com/sports/2018/4/27/compliance-playingpracticeseasons.aspx

And of course most of the eastern teams are NOT Ivies, including Bucknell.

One other factor to consider is that the national team trains in California. That probably is a factor for many of the top recruits who are in the USA WP pipeline, who may choose to stay in California for college so they are not faced with two trans-continental flights every time they need to join the team.

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Re: 2019 NCAA Championships

Postby waterboy1 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:08 pm

2plyBathingSuit wrote:
dadonthedeck wrote:
ephpolo wrote:As for Harvard's unbeaten season until the Bucknell game, it was a real accomplishment for Harvard. If I were Harvard's coach and athletics information director I'd be talking it up, too. But I bet both Ted and the players would have rather lost an early season game than the one to Bucknell.

I don’t know. This week is Harvard’s reading period before finals. I’d guess missing a cross country trip is a mixed blessing for some of the players.


You may be on to sumpthin dad. Last year Princeton upset Harvard and won the NWPC Championship. Subsequently, their first round NCAA game was against the mid-Atlantic winner GW. In that game, Princeton went up 4 or 5 goals in the third...but, Princeton ended up losing that game. I heard a rumor that there were some individuals that didn't want to win that game because finals were coming up as well...and if had they won, their 2nd round game in CA would have been against UCLA. Am I beginning to see an Ivy League pattern here?


Princeton's finals aren't until January.

I don't think competitors think about those things during the game. More likely where the disadvantage would come is not being focused in the preparation for the game.

Realistically, as of right now guys who go east are essentially giving up their national team hopes. But to be fair, I don't think playing for the national team is as prestigious as it once was. Bonanni comes to mind as a top example of a player who simply didn't want to sacrifice the beginning of his work career to dedicate his life to two weeks. Props to the guys who do sacrifice for the opportunity to represent the national team, but even Dunstan who made an Olympic trip didn't want to put himself through the toll of making it back.

I don't follow any programs on social media, but I don't get the big fuss about Harvard posting about being undefeated. Their target audience is donors and recruits.

Lastly, there is obviously still quite a disparity between top 6 teams and east coast teams. That being said, the east coast teams somehow are competitive with teams like UCSD, UCD, even Pepperdine, teams that train far more than them. Is it that crazy to think that they could continue closing the gap with the Big 4? Just my 2 cents...

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