2021 Season

Mens College Water Polo
5150wpdad
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Re: 2021 Season

Postby 5150wpdad » Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:10 am

SkipShot101 wrote:
5150wpdad wrote:
SkipShot101 wrote:
5150wpdad wrote:
SkipShot101 wrote:
Yeah I watched the game. Once Davis tied it at 4 and the momentum clearly shifted to Davis the refs immediately sprung into action. Lickily they knew who was supposed to win.


Hmm, I saw the game too. Stats on FOSH don’t seem to bare that out. Davis had large advantage on exclusions and penalty shots. Also, Mercep and Langton fouled out in 3rd/4th qtr. USC played better defense in the stretch. Mercep stealing goalie inbound pass for 1 on none goal was the momentum swing, IMO. Davis will get a another shot at MPSF.


Ok. If u saw the game then u know it wasn't really about the overall stats. It was about the quick kickouts, offensive fouls and 5 meter penalty that were called against Davis in rapid succession immediately after they tied the game. Led to a 5-0 run by USC that completely swung the momentum and broke Davis back.

In my opinion it was clear that they didn't want to be the refs responsible for allowing Davis to beat usc. They definitely wanted to put an end to that possibility. So they did...very effectively.

But it doesn't really matter at this point. Usc ended up winning easily and all is right in the water Polo world.

Trust me, I'm glad usc won. I don't want these non big 4 schools thinking they can compete. I'm like u guys. I want to come in here once in a while and pay lip service to "spreading the talent around" and "growing the sport" when in reality I want the sport to only have a couple of dominant teams, and preferably only in southern California. Luckily the refs feel the same way.

Don't worry guys. We've got nothing to worry about. Our sport is safe.


Not my take. Are you sure you aren’t referring to the Davis/Cal game?

Davis goalie was pulled after the Mercep blitz. Go back and review the FOSH rolling commentary. The 5 meter penalty was legit (as were the other 4 penalty calls vs USC). Davis did compete. They fell apart at a crucial moment in the game. Beltran, Fleming and Gross played great.

According to the tourney bracket, Davis and USC will meet next weekend at MPSF, assuming Davis can beat UCSD in their first game (USC has a bye).


Haha...you really got a good feel for the game by watching the rolling commentary on the fosh?!? From watching the fosh? You're serious? Kaboom!

Cmon man, how can I take your comments about the game serious when you are basing them off of a rolling commentary on the fosh? How exactly could u tell that all of the penalty fouls were legit based on the fosh? You didn't even watch the game?

It's OK man. I understand what the planet is - primarily socal guys rooting for socal teams. That's our sport.

Usc won my man. You got what u wanted. And I'm sure you will get it again and again this year. And ucla too. You'll get them winning too. For years to come. You win bud.

And then in a few months make sure and come on here about how much you want to see other programs succeed and the sport grow. Don't forget.


FOSH just confirmed what I saw. Good luck with the conspiracy theories. We all know how those work out. Maybe Davis would have won had they not taken the last season off?

WPhan
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Re: 2021 Season

Postby WPhan » Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:30 am

I think USC's 5-0 run after the game was tied had more to do with Mercep getting a hot shooting hand when the rest of the team (like we've seen with basketball teams) was "cold" and off to a sluggish start. Trojans had low field goal and PPT percentages for the first half and needed for one of their stars to make things happen. Mercep delivered with 7 goals. There's a down-side to having a super talent on the team (other sports terms: go-to man; closer; ace, meal ticket, main event, mailman, etc.) because there can be an over-reliance on that talent. But if they can deliver when needed - in this case against a motivated and well coached UCD team playing in their home pool and hosting their own tournament - then the "mailman" delivers with a "W".

SkipShot101
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Re: 2021 Season

Postby SkipShot101 » Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:45 am

5150wpdad wrote:
SkipShot101 wrote:
5150wpdad wrote:
SkipShot101 wrote:
5150wpdad wrote:
Hmm, I saw the game too. Stats on FOSH don’t seem to bare that out. Davis had large advantage on exclusions and penalty shots. Also, Mercep and Langton fouled out in 3rd/4th qtr. USC played better defense in the stretch. Mercep stealing goalie inbound pass for 1 on none goal was the momentum swing, IMO. Davis will get a another shot at MPSF.


Ok. If u saw the game then u know it wasn't really about the overall stats. It was about the quick kickouts, offensive fouls and 5 meter penalty that were called against Davis in rapid succession immediately after they tied the game. Led to a 5-0 run by USC that completely swung the momentum and broke Davis back.

In my opinion it was clear that they didn't want to be the refs responsible for allowing Davis to beat usc. They definitely wanted to put an end to that possibility. So they did...very effectively.

But it doesn't really matter at this point. Usc ended up winning easily and all is right in the water Polo world.

Trust me, I'm glad usc won. I don't want these non big 4 schools thinking they can compete. I'm like u guys. I want to come in here once in a while and pay lip service to "spreading the talent around" and "growing the sport" when in reality I want the sport to only have a couple of dominant teams, and preferably only in southern California. Luckily the refs feel the same way.

Don't worry guys. We've got nothing to worry about. Our sport is safe.


Not my take. Are you sure you aren’t referring to the Davis/Cal game?

Davis goalie was pulled after the Mercep blitz. Go back and review the FOSH rolling commentary. The 5 meter penalty was legit (as were the other 4 penalty calls vs USC). Davis did compete. They fell apart at a crucial moment in the game. Beltran, Fleming and Gross played great.

According to the tourney bracket, Davis and USC will meet next weekend at MPSF, assuming Davis can beat UCSD in their first game (USC has a bye).


Haha...you really got a good feel for the game by watching the rolling commentary on the fosh?!? From watching the fosh? You're serious? Kaboom!

Cmon man, how can I take your comments about the game serious when you are basing them off of a rolling commentary on the fosh? How exactly could u tell that all of the penalty fouls were legit based on the fosh? You didn't even watch the game?

It's OK man. I understand what the planet is - primarily socal guys rooting for socal teams. That's our sport.

Usc won my man. You got what u wanted. And I'm sure you will get it again and again this year. And ucla too. You'll get them winning too. For years to come. You win bud.

And then in a few months make sure and come on here about how much you want to see other programs succeed and the sport grow. Don't forget.


FOSH just confirmed what I saw. Good luck with the conspiracy theories. We all know how those work out. Maybe Davis would have won had they not taken the last season off?


OK so were at the game? Because based on your comments it doesn't sound like you were. And it doesn't sound like the other guy posting was either (wphan). It sounds more like u guys just check the stats on fosh and then scroll thru the fosh play by play. Which I assume you know is nothing like actually be there.

If you were there then you know that as soon as Davis tied the game the refs took over and called at least 10 straight calls against Davis in the form of offensive fouls, kickouts and penalty shots. The result was 5 quick goals by usc that put the game out of reach and broke Davis spirit, both the crowd and the team.

Now of course the question is whether the fouls were the refs fear that they would be the mockery of the wp world for letting Davis beat usc, or were they all legit? The fact that the game was tied in the 3rd indicates one thing and the rabid socal/usc fans on this forum believe the opposite. Doesn't really matter does it. Like I said, u won.

Just remember what I said. Next time there is a thread on here about how much we all want wp to grow and how mad we are at Ramsey for not growing the sport I want u to make sure and post several times about how you really want other programs to grow and how you want them to be given a fair chance to compete. Of course we both know u don't but don't worry about that. Just skate right over the hypocrisy like everyone else on this forum. In reality we (you, the fans, the refs, usawp) have got the sport right where we want it.

Cal Polo Enthusiast
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Re: 2021 Season

Postby Cal Polo Enthusiast » Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:02 am

Horse585 wrote:The Brewins are the better team, no question. The Gauchos playing a doubleheader had no bearing on the result. (Still though…wondering why Wolf would schedule an earlier game against a top 10 team before playing the Brewins—my only logical guess is acknowledgment that it’s a nonconference match so it’s all just preparation for GCC tourney?)
Brewin defense clamped down in 2nd half. Rhodes went “o-for” from the field. I’m sure he’d like a do over in front of his hometown fans.
The lack of play-by-play and color commentating in this game was better than listening to the UC Davis redshirts during the livestream yesterday. Smh.


I wouldn't think that UCLA scraping past them twice by only 2 goals means that there is that much between them. Sawyer Rhodes probably won't have another day when he scores 0 from 7.

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2plyBathingSuit
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Re: 2021 Season

Postby 2plyBathingSuit » Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:27 am

We need to worry more about losing "money sports" exiting college NCAA. That day is coming folks, the courts already confirmed this. Revenue sharing to water polo programs and others will be gone. Dark days are on the horizon for sure. Sorry to be such a-hole and pessimist. It's only a matter of time.

Judyjudyjudy7
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Re: 2021 Season

Postby Judyjudyjudy7 » Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:08 am

SkipShot101 wrote:
5150wpdad wrote:
SkipShot101 wrote:
5150wpdad wrote:
SkipShot101 wrote:
Ok. If u saw the game then u know it wasn't really about the overall stats. It was about the quick kickouts, offensive fouls and 5 meter penalty that were called against Davis in rapid succession immediately after they tied the game. Led to a 5-0 run by USC that completely swung the momentum and broke Davis back.

In my opinion it was clear that they didn't want to be the refs responsible for allowing Davis to beat usc. They definitely wanted to put an end to that possibility. So they did...very effectively.

But it doesn't really matter at this point. Usc ended up winning easily and all is right in the water Polo world.

Trust me, I'm glad usc won. I don't want these non big 4 schools thinking they can compete. I'm like u guys. I want to come in here once in a while and pay lip service to "spreading the talent around" and "growing the sport" when in reality I want the sport to only have a couple of dominant teams, and preferably only in southern California. Luckily the refs feel the same way.

Don't worry guys. We've got nothing to worry about. Our sport is safe.


Not my take. Are you sure you aren’t referring to the Davis/Cal game?

Davis goalie was pulled after the Mercep blitz. Go back and review the FOSH rolling commentary. The 5 meter penalty was legit (as were the other 4 penalty calls vs USC). Davis did compete. They fell apart at a crucial moment in the game. Beltran, Fleming and Gross played great.

According to the tourney bracket, Davis and USC will meet next weekend at MPSF, assuming Davis can beat UCSD in their first game (USC has a bye).


Haha...you really got a good feel for the game by watching the rolling commentary on the fosh?!? From watching the fosh? You're serious? Kaboom!

Cmon man, how can I take your comments about the game serious when you are basing them off of a rolling commentary on the fosh? How exactly could u tell that all of the penalty fouls were legit based on the fosh? You didn't even watch the game?

It's OK man. I understand what the planet is - primarily socal guys rooting for socal teams. That's our sport.

Usc won my man. You got what u wanted. And I'm sure you will get it again and again this year. And ucla too. You'll get them winning too. For years to come. You win bud.

And then in a few months make sure and come on here about how much you want to see other programs succeed and the sport grow. Don't forget.


FOSH just confirmed what I saw. Good luck with the conspiracy theories. We all know how those work out. Maybe Davis would have won had they not taken the last season off?


OK so were at the game? Because based on your comments it doesn't sound like you were. And it doesn't sound like the other guy posting was either (wphan). It sounds more like u guys just check the stats on fosh and then scroll thru the fosh play by play. Which I assume you know is nothing like actually be there.

If you were there then you know that as soon as Davis tied the game the refs took over and called at least 10 straight calls against Davis in the form of offensive fouls, kickouts and penalty shots. The result was 5 quick goals by usc that put the game out of reach and broke Davis spirit, both the crowd and the team.

Now of course the question is whether the fouls were the refs fear that they would be the mockery of the wp world for letting Davis beat usc, or were they all legit? The fact that the game was tied in the 3rd indicates one thing and the rabid socal/usc fans on this forum believe the opposite. Doesn't really matter does it. Like I said, u won.

Just remember what I said. Next time there is a thread on here about how much we all want wp to grow and how mad we are at Ramsey for not growing the sport I want u to make sure and post several times about how you really want other programs to grow and how you want them to be given a fair chance to compete. Of course we both know u don't but don't worry about that. Just skate right over the hypocrisy like everyone else on this forum. In reality we (you, the fans, the refs, usawp) have got the sport right where we want it.


Agree 100% with Skipshot, there is bias in the refereeing both conscious and unconscious due to incentives. In any field you want to be perceived to be at or near the top. The MPSF tournament and championships and the NCAA's are arguably the peak level. This manifests in many ways but the obvious ones are: 1) Fouls are "given" to big-4 teams and earned by the next tier, the result is better ball movement and more time in the offensive zone. 2) Hard fouls - are hard fouls for Big-4, they are exclusions for the next tier resulting in goals. 3) Close games often turn on offensive fouls and kick outs at the end of shot clocks.

The players and spectators deserve a game that is called the same both ways (think strike zone in baseball). The level of control that Big-4 coaches have over the referee selection further exacerbates the issue. In SD at the Triton, the UCLA coach "talked" to all the referees after a closer than expected game vs CBU. This resulted in a game vs SB (which imho they should have lost) where they got ref'ed back into the game and to a win. This weekend will be interesting as there are some other good teams, lets see if the referees let them win.

OCPoloDad
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Re: 2021 Season

Postby OCPoloDad » Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:17 am

2plyBathingSuit wrote:We need to worry more about losing "money sports" exiting college NCAA. That day is coming folks, the courts already confirmed this. Revenue sharing to water polo programs and others will be gone. Dark days are on the horizon for sure. Sorry to be such a-hole and pessimist. It's only a matter of time.


This should be a different thread but Fair statement. May or may not happen because to many a fan, college sports is a religion. But we could move toward the European route of Club Sports. One has to wonder if academic institutions will continue to hitch their wagon to this pony of entertainment business and all the work/drama that comes with it and per below link, no revenue for the vast majority of them. Wall Street Journal stated that College Athletic Departments run on average a $16 million deficit. Does it help in recruiting top academic talent, for sure. But what is the cost/benefit to that?

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/sto ... e-athletes

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Re: 2021 Season

Postby Rational » Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:25 pm

OCPoloDad wrote:https://www.espn.com/college-sports/sto ... e-athletes


Interesting article. A reality of water polo and football/basketball revenue sharing is that the predominately black athletes are blocked from making money to fund the predominately white sports like water polo, field hockey, etc.

If revenue sharing were to end, it would spell the end for lots of programs. If you look at a team's budget, travel is a major expense; it's not hard to spend $25,000 per weekend for a team to fly to an away opponent. For the teams that remain, away travel would be severely hampered; I imagine leagues like the SCIAC where all are relatively close would be a sustainable model.

If change is going to be forced upon us, what can water polo do to make itself more resilient and self sufficient?

Do we need to play six 5 minute periods instead of four 8 minute quarters to have more time opportunities for TV commercials? Do commercials matter now when almost everything is online streaming?

Do we need to evaluate roster restrictions to enable more teams to win NCAAs?

Do we need to rewrite the rules so anyone can understand them? We're never going to grow if its only immediate family and roommates attending the games.

Maybe when there's a mass exodus from the MPSF on both the Men's and Women's side, and the MPSF Men have to align with a D3 from Texas and Pennsylvania to keep their AQ alive ........ maybe then we can talk about how what we have isn't sustainable.

polo12345
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Re: 2021 Season

Postby polo12345 » Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:16 pm

Start a different thread for that topic,,,,,,, lets get back to the games,,,,,, Princeton dominating Pepperdine,,, out coached and not prepared by the waves. Good win for the East coast

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2plyBathingSuit
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Re: 2021 Season

Postby 2plyBathingSuit » Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:46 pm

polo12345 wrote:Start a different thread for that topic,,,,,,, lets get back to the games,,,,,, Princeton dominating Pepperdine,,, out coached and not prepared by the waves. Good win for the East coast



Sorry, my bad. You're right. I was in a grumpy mood when I started that off-topic comment. Moving forward...careful not to critique coaches too closely...some of them are unable to handle it. The Covid year certainly did a number on NCAA water polo. Amazing how many foreigners there are now on virtually every team. On a positive note,...Balazs Kosa from Hungary scored 5 goals for the Waves in that game vs Princeton. With 200 goals, he's now tied at 12th on Pepperdine's "All-Time" scoring list.

Rbpolo0414
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Re: 2021 Season

Postby Rbpolo0414 » Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:28 pm

Stanford 15 LBSU 14 OT

mwb2001
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Re: 2021 Season

Postby mwb2001 » Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:05 am

yikes pepp. not looking too hot. Anyone know why the GCC Player of the Year Kent Emden isn't in goal for them? Seems to make no sense he isn't even listed as splitting time in blowouts,

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Re: 2021 Season

Postby Rbpolo0414 » Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:23 am

mwb2001 wrote:yikes pepp. not looking too hot. Anyone know why the GCC Player of the Year Kent Emden isn't in goal for them? Seems to make no sense he isn't even listed as splitting time in blowouts,


Redshirting?

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Re: 2021 Season

Postby mwb2001 » Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:46 am

Would seem like an odd choice, but yeah maybe he realized this was a rebuilding year and took it off. not a bad idea tbh.

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2plyBathingSuit
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Re: 2021 Season

Postby 2plyBathingSuit » Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:54 am

Rbpolo0414 wrote:Stanford 15 LBSU 14 OT
Lots of sandbagging goin' on amongst the Big Four. It's almost as if they are doing it on purpose. ;-)
I'm always amazed (not) how the Big Four knows how just much effort it takes to keep the "riff-raff" just a few pegs below them. Is anyone ever surprised by this? The answer is no.

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