Predictions for 2022

Mens College Water Polo
Pacificblue
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Re: Predictions for 2022

Postby Pacificblue » Thu Apr 07, 2022 7:12 pm

Something tells me that if an influx of foreign players ever seriously threatened the stranglehold of the Big 4, they would quickly change their tune and be the first ones lobbying for a cap on the number of foreign players per roster.

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Re: Predictions for 2022

Postby Cal Polo Enthusiast » Thu Apr 07, 2022 7:49 pm

Pacificblue wrote:Something tells me that if an influx of foreign players ever seriously threatened the stranglehold of the Big 4, they would quickly change their tune and be the first ones lobbying for a cap on the number of foreign players per roster.


Why? They could still afford the best foreigners.

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Re: Predictions for 2022

Postby Pacificblue » Thu Apr 07, 2022 8:04 pm

Cal Polo Enthusiast wrote:
Pacificblue wrote:Something tells me that if an influx of foreign players ever seriously threatened the stranglehold of the Big 4, they would quickly change their tune and be the first ones lobbying for a cap on the number of foreign players per roster.


Why? They could still afford the best foreigners.


Well, notice I did say "if".

And my comment was in reaction to this prediction from 2ply - "With the influx of foreign players on an epic scale to virtually every "water polo" college within US will have a major impact. The Big Four (of course) will still expect high "academic standards" to live-up too (including High TOFL scores etc.)... but unfortunately we know this will ultimately cripple them. Lots of other colleges have no such standards...(as you know). I can't wait for the change. It's way overdue. 5 years down the road....the conversations here on WPP will be very different...guaranteed."

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Re: Predictions for 2022

Postby Justafan22 » Sat Apr 09, 2022 2:12 am

Pacificblue wrote:Something tells me that if an influx of foreign players ever seriously threatened the stranglehold of the Big 4, they would quickly change their tune and be the first ones lobbying for a cap on the number of foreign players per roster.


What makes you think there will be an unusual influx of foreigners now?

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Re: Predictions for 2022

Postby 2plyBathingSuit » Sat Apr 09, 2022 2:30 am

Justafan22 wrote:
Pacificblue wrote:Something tells me that if an influx of foreign players ever seriously threatened the stranglehold of the Big 4, they would quickly change their tune and be the first ones lobbying for a cap on the number of foreign players per roster.


What makes you think there will be an unusual influx of foreigners now?
Because it's happening right before our very eye's. All you gotta do is Google these "lesser" colleges who have water polo programs.

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Re: Predictions for 2022

Postby Justafan22 » Sat Apr 09, 2022 2:38 am

2plyBathingSuit wrote:
Justafan22 wrote:
Pacificblue wrote:Something tells me that if an influx of foreign players ever seriously threatened the stranglehold of the Big 4, they would quickly change their tune and be the first ones lobbying for a cap on the number of foreign players per roster.


What makes you think there will be an unusual influx of foreigners now?
Because it's happening right before our very eye's. All you gotta do is Google these "lesser" colleges who have water polo programs.


Yes but waterpolo is not a money making sport for any of these colleges. So what is the incentive into getting creative to fund the education of these foreign players, if there is not Holy Grail at the end ?

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Re: Predictions for 2022

Postby 2plyBathingSuit » Sat Apr 09, 2022 3:59 am

Justafan22 wrote:
2plyBathingSuit wrote:
Justafan22 wrote:
Pacificblue wrote:Something tells me that if an influx of foreign players ever seriously threatened the stranglehold of the Big 4, they would quickly change their tune and be the first ones lobbying for a cap on the number of foreign players per roster.


What makes you think there will be an unusual influx of foreigners now?
Because it's happening right before our very eye's. All you gotta do is Google these "lesser" colleges who have water polo programs.


Yes but waterpolo is not a money making sport for any of these colleges. So what is the incentive into getting creative to fund the education of these foreign players, if there is not Holy Grail at the end ?


Yea, no money sports ..true...but ITS (still) CALLED BRAGGING RIGHTS...Holy smokes, people still think this isn't happening? Good luck that your "white" American kid gets into the Big Four...that's changing as we speak.

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Re: Predictions for 2022

Postby Uswjnr05 » Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:03 pm

To a certain extent there is value in competitions with prestigious programs/schools as you become associated with them.

Foreign players not only bring talent, but increase the school’s international student numbers which enables the school to claim increased diversity. Water polo may not be a revenue sport, but anything that builds the brand is valuable to the school.

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Re: Predictions for 2022

Postby ephpolo » Wed Apr 13, 2022 1:45 pm

I get that many people think there are too many foreigners in college water polo, and therefore too few opportunities for talented but not elite US high school players to move on to college water polo. Is there any evidence that this problem is worse in water polo than in other sports? What are the proportions of non-US players in each sport?

It seems to me that (1) The better strategy to provide more opportunity for athletes to play in college would be to expand the very small number of schools that play college water polo; and (2) The solution--if you think one is needed--to "too many foreigners" lies with the NCAA establishing limits for all sports. Perhaps conferences could do this--I am not sure whether that would run afoul of NCAA rules.

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Re: Predictions for 2022

Postby OCPoloDad » Wed Apr 13, 2022 4:52 pm

ephpolo wrote: Is there any evidence that this problem is worse in water polo than in other sports? What are the proportions of non-US players in each sport?


Men's Hockey. Like Water Polo, several schools are renowned International recruiters. For example; University of Denver the NCAA Champion had a few Americans while the rest were Canadian or other. The other NCAA men's powerhouse, UofM has a larger mix of Americans, but still has 6-7 internationals. Both have 9 NCAA Championships each.

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Re: Predictions for 2022

Postby NoSoloPolo » Wed Apr 13, 2022 7:07 pm

ephpolo wrote:I get that many people think there are too many foreigners in college water polo, and therefore too few opportunities for talented but not elite US high school players to move on to college water polo. Is there any evidence that this problem is worse in water polo than in other sports? What are the proportions of non-US players in each sport?

It seems to me that (1) The better strategy to provide more opportunity for athletes to play in college would be to expand the very small number of schools that play college water polo; and (2) The solution--if you think one is needed--to "too many foreigners" lies with the NCAA establishing limits for all sports. Perhaps conferences could do this--I am not sure whether that would run afoul of NCAA rules.


To me this is as much of an indictment on the development of players in the US. By the simple law of numbers there should be no reason why the small number of colleges should not have plenty of players to pick from given the base of US players. But, they go to Europe. Why? It's really expensive and somewhat risky to recruit from Europe. To me, it's because the players are not being uniformly and properly developed here to offer a deep and wide pool. When you see a talented shooter from Europe, for example, they often look totally different and this is especially pronounced on the women's side. When you get players from Europe who have played in Serbia, Montenegro, Croatia etc you are getting a mental discipline and approach to the game that is unlike what is incubated for the most part in the US except for fairly small pockets.

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Re: Predictions for 2022

Postby Cal Polo Enthusiast » Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:25 pm

NoSoloPolo wrote:
ephpolo wrote:I get that many people think there are too many foreigners in college water polo, and therefore too few opportunities for talented but not elite US high school players to move on to college water polo. Is there any evidence that this problem is worse in water polo than in other sports? What are the proportions of non-US players in each sport?

It seems to me that (1) The better strategy to provide more opportunity for athletes to play in college would be to expand the very small number of schools that play college water polo; and (2) The solution--if you think one is needed--to "too many foreigners" lies with the NCAA establishing limits for all sports. Perhaps conferences could do this--I am not sure whether that would run afoul of NCAA rules.


To me this is as much of an indictment on the development of players in the US. By the simple law of numbers there should be no reason why the small number of colleges should not have plenty of players to pick from given the base of US players. But, they go to Europe. Why? It's really expensive and somewhat risky to recruit from Europe. To me, it's because the players are not being uniformly and properly developed here to offer a deep and wide pool. When you see a talented shooter from Europe, for example, they often look totally different and this is especially pronounced on the women's side. When you get players from Europe who have played in Serbia, Montenegro, Croatia etc you are getting a mental discipline and approach to the game that is unlike what is incubated for the most part in the US except for fairly small pockets.


Another issue is that, from my experience, very few D1 US college players have ambitions to play professionally and look on it as a resume entry for later employment. Not really surprising when there is no US pro league. Other countries with no pro league have similar issues although some, like Australia, have a semi-pro league with only the very best often going overseas to play for a year or two at least.

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Re: Predictions for 2022

Postby 2plyBathingSuit » Thu Apr 14, 2022 12:59 am

ephpolo wrote:I get that many people think there are too many foreigners in college water polo, and therefore too few opportunities for talented but not elite US high school players to move on to college water polo. Is there any evidence that this problem is worse in water polo than in other sports? What are the proportions of non-US players in each sport?

It seems to me that (1) The better strategy to provide more opportunity for athletes to play in college would be to expand the very small number of schools that play college water polo; and (2) The solution--if you think one is needed--to "too many foreigners" lies with the NCAA establishing limits for all sports. Perhaps conferences could do this--I am not sure whether that would run afoul of NCAA rules.


Bottom line is...there is no water polo "life" here in America after you graduate from college here in the states. I certainly don't blame the international community of water polo "foreigners" coming here to America to play and to get educated. If I were them, I'd do the same. Our system allows it. US born players are now on the outside looking in...in their own country. Of course they the can still compete...right? It's just the way it is.

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Re: Predictions for 2022

Postby Dinosaur dad » Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:06 am

Exactly

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Re: Predictions for 2022

Postby homesteadjoe » Mon May 02, 2022 1:59 am

There was a tournament this weekend at Stanford. The teams that participated were Stanford, Cal, UCSB, UC Davis, SJSU, and Olympic Club. I watched part of SJSU vs. Olympic Club and all of the Stanford vs. Cal game. The Stanford vs. Cal game was very good, both teams appeared to have brought all of their players and were definitely playing hard. Game ended 14-14 in regulation, after which Cal won in sudden death.

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