Simulation Penalty Rule Change

Mens College Water Polo
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Simulation Penalty Rule Change

Postby SwimCoach » Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:19 pm

I just saw this posted. I am all for stricter penalties for simulation. Hopefully the refs will enforce them.

INDIANAPOLIS, Ind. — The National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) Playing Rules Oversight Panel during a virtual call on Tuesday, June 21, approved reducing the shot clock in women’s water polo to 30 seconds for the 2022-23 academic year. Previously, the shot clock was 35 seconds.

The Men’s and Women’s Water Polo Rules Subcommittee, which proposed the change, thinks a reduction in the women’s shot clock will reduce the holding and grabbing that occurs while the ball is in play.

The panel also approved a change to the penalty for simulation.

Starting next season, the penalty will be modified from a turnover when called on the offense and an exclusion foul when called on the defense to a team yellow card for the first offense by each team.

Subsequent calls for simulation on that team will be considered a minor act of misconduct by the offending player.


Release courtesy National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA)
Last edited by SwimCoach on Thu Jun 23, 2022 11:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Simulation Penalty Rule Change

Postby Water-Polo-Fan » Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:19 pm

SwimCoach wrote:I just saw this posted. I am all for stricter penalties for simulation. Hopefully the refs will enforce them.

It’s an act where the player is literally trying to game the official. No referee appreciates that. It’ll be enforced.

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Re: Simulation Penalty Rule Change

Postby Justafan22 » Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:08 pm

Water-Polo-Fan wrote:
SwimCoach wrote:I just saw this posted. I am all for stricter penalties for simulation. Hopefully the refs will enforce them.

It’s an act where the player is literally trying to game the official. No referee appreciates that. It’ll be enforced.


It is also an act by the fans, who simulate to knowing the rules, and then keep yelling at the reffs, when in fact they have no clue about the rules. :lol:

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Re: Simulation Penalty Rule Change

Postby Justafan22 » Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:13 pm

But seriously now, the simulation rules change is a good one. If the reffs get instructed to make these calls early in the season and stay consistent as the season goes, players will adapt and by the end of the season, when the games get really important, the reffs will not need to be looking at probable simulation anymore.

The cutting of the shot clock time from 35 to 30, I'm not sure how that will reduce holding, but if anything, it will speed up the game, so that's also good. With 30 seconds there is plenty of time to get down the pool and set up your plays. If the 12Us can do it, so can the adults

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Re: Simulation Penalty Rule Change

Postby ephpolo » Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:48 pm

I like more penalties for simulation. I don't like creating a special rule to deal with it via a team yellow card and then a minor misconduct. Would be simpler to make it an exclusion on both offense and defense, and count it toward the three major fouls before exclusion.

Question for the referees (and keen observers)--what do you look for as signs of simulation? Where is the line between simulation and "showing that your are being fouled"?

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Re: Simulation Penalty Rule Change

Postby sbdad » Thu Jun 30, 2022 1:30 pm

Good point. So much holding, coaches always telling players they need to show the ref that they are being held. Hate to see that called for simulation but at the same time you see a ton of acting in the 16 and 18U age groups. I would love to see the transition exclusions stop. When the offensive player stops mid stroke, puts the defender who is swimming behind on his back to draw an exclusion. This single act should be stopped. One, it is dangerous for the defender to have someone just stop in front of them on purpose. Two it is usually clear that the offensive player is doing it on purpose, so why would the ref reward them? half the time you see the offensive player look at the ref to see if they are watching before they do it, then the ref only sees the poor defender colliding with the player who just stopped. Yes, defenders do try to swim over from time to time, but 90 percent of the time it is "simulated" buy the offensive player.

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Re: Simulation Penalty Rule Change

Postby Justafan22 » Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:46 pm

sbdad wrote:Good point. So much holding, coaches always telling players they need to show the ref that they are being held. Hate to see that called for simulation but at the same time you see a ton of acting in the 16 and 18U age groups. I would love to see the transition exclusions stop. When the offensive player stops mid stroke, puts the defender who is swimming behind on his back to draw an exclusion. This single act should be stopped. One, it is dangerous for the defender to have someone just stop in front of them on purpose. Two it is usually clear that the offensive player is doing it on purpose, so why would the ref reward them? half the time you see the offensive player look at the ref to see if they are watching before they do it, then the ref only sees the poor defender colliding with the player who just stopped. Yes, defenders do try to swim over from time to time, but 90 percent of the time it is "simulated" buy the offensive player.


I agree with you on this one. It is so annoying. You clearly see one player swim and slip in front of the defender and then slow down their swimming, to draw the exclusion. The person that 'causes' the contact should get the exclusion. You will see how that gets stopped after a ref calls it a few times on the offensive player. It would be like "hey I'm glad you are looking at me right now, because YOU are getting excluded"

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Re: Simulation Penalty Rule Change

Postby Cal Polo Enthusiast » Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:04 pm

Justafan22 wrote:I agree with you on this one. It is so annoying. You clearly see one player swim and slip in front of the defender and then slow down their swimming, to draw the exclusion. The person that 'causes' the contact should get the exclusion. You will see how that gets stopped after a ref calls it a few times on the offensive player. It would be like "hey I'm glad you are looking at me right now, because YOU are getting excluded"


How is that annoying? The defender either should have been faster to prevent the attacker getting front water or not be dumb enough to then blunder into the back of them, giving a foul away. And sometimes it is a choice by the defender to foul rather than give the attacker direct line to goal. It also isn't simulation, that is simply a foul.

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Re: Simulation Penalty Rule Change

Postby sbdad » Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:37 am

see for some it is the only way they will ever score... those are the the types that enjoy this behavior. If it is the first offensive player back you are right, when it is the 4-5th in transition, it should be a no call. Offensive player had the advantage, he should not be rewarded for "Simulating" that the defender climbed on his back!

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Re: Simulation Penalty Rule Change

Postby Justafan22 » Fri Jul 01, 2022 3:13 pm

Correct, if an offensive player is swimming hard and the defender can't keep up and grabs at him/her from behind, or if offensive player stops to try to get in position to get a pass, and defender just runs into him/her it's one thing. Yes exclude the defensive player.
But if the offensive player looks over and purposely swims over at an angle to block the defensive player getting back on defense and all of a sudden pretend they can't swim and are almost drowning, because the defender 'swam' into them? Don't reward them with an exclusion on defender. That's cheap play. You swam over and got into the defenders lane and now you are trying to get a call??? This is simulation. Man up or woman up and play the right way so that we don't have to keep hearing annoying whittles all the time. Most of the time the reffs see this and tell them to swim on, but if they were to call and exclusion for simulation on offense once in a while, you would see this practice of 'simulation' go down I bet. And then I would not get annoyed as much :D

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Re: Simulation Penalty Rule Change

Postby Water-Polo-Fan » Fri Jul 01, 2022 6:25 pm

Justafan22 wrote:But if the offensive player looks over and purposely swims over at an angle to block the defensive player getting back on defense and all of a sudden pretend they can't swim and are almost drowning, because the defender 'swam' into them? Don't reward them with an exclusion on defender. That's cheap play.

What you’re describing isn’t simulation, it’s actually impeding and there’s already a rule for that.
The question is whether or not the referee saw it from the beginning. If they didn’t, they shouldn’t call what they only believed happened. Most refs with a lot of games under the belt know what simulation is when they see it. MOST of the time it’s pretending to be fouled when everyone and their cousins know there’s no foul. Most of the time it’s not called because of advantage but other times it’s plain ignored to the game’s detriment.
The simulation rule is not something that is going to clear up every gripe as the referee is clearly not going to see each and every one. For the situations that warrant the call, it’s another tool in the toolbox to make the game more playable and enjoyable to watch. Now it just needs to be consistently enforced or it means nothing.

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