New CIF Transfer Rules

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Otto
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New CIF Transfer Rules

Postby Otto » Tue May 08, 2012 2:24 pm

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... 1OEJ5V.DTL

The CIF has bowed to the litigation pressure of the parachiol schools and given up on the transfer rules. Now "athlete-students" can transfer on 30 days notice and be elibible to play.

Good luck to any HS coach who does not have open enrollment.

I don't see anything limiting the recruiting rules, but these are impossible to enforce, especially when the parachial schools will sue you for it. The CIF spent $2.8 million last year on litigation and insurance on these issues. They can't afford to fight for fairness anymore.

The only way you can justify this, other than as a cost saving measure, is by saying it help elite talent choose the coach to help them develop. For most players and teams, it turns them into farm teams for the elite religious schools and open enrollment public schools.

OCPoloDad
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Re: New CIF Transfer Rules

Postby OCPoloDad » Tue May 08, 2012 8:29 pm

"Those against the proposal think this will open Pandora's box, and players will switch schools simply for sports and college exposure. There's also the fear of some high school teams turning into all-star squads, sort of like the Miami Heat." - - - No, really???

114-21 vote, really CIF? Let's set aside sports for this conversation: When a student transfers, say out of District, how much money does the District lose with the loss of that student? In the Public sector, the new school receives a star athlete (the Principal can expand their chest), and an additional $8K (or whatever the amount is) ---> It's a win-win; getting paid to win. Wow, whatever happened to School Socialism? Let's evenly distribute the funds, and students? Forget about it, let's widen the diversity between the have's and have not's, athletically speaking.

Thesita
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Re: New CIF Transfer Rules

Postby Thesita » Tue May 08, 2012 9:12 pm

As an old time coach of high school and club, I have always thought that it was important for public schools to offer sports. Recently in my discussions with European athletes and coaches I have started to turn to the approach of clubs for sports so that schools can focus money on academics and other reasons. I have not made up my mind and I wrestle with this idea but wouldn't this rule move towards a direction of "private" teams that are not really private but are exclusive in effect?

I have come across multiple families who have openly stated why they changed schools- for polo reasons and not academics or area they live in.

I think you should be able to go to any public school within your area but that sports should not be a part. If we took away the sports, school choice would be based on area and academics under no false pretense. I also would like to think that all students be given an opportunity to play. I just don't know if both together are the way to go. Maybe some people just have it tougher and if they can't play a sport outside of school that is just tough luck. The other hard part for me is that change is hard and that schools currently have the pools. W/o the school districts paying millions for the pools there would be less polo. Less people able to play. In socal most of the polo, even clubs, takes place at a high school campus. Hard to change that w/o city/government support.

I just don't know what would be best in reality? My first choice would be all schools get nice pools and coaches and academics. That is not realistic though. There are better programs than others. Free country sort of?

oldtimer
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Re: New CIF Transfer Rules

Postby oldtimer » Wed May 09, 2012 1:11 pm

I helped start an age group club about one year ago in a school district that has three high schools. This district has always allowed students to transfer where they want (based upon whether there are opening at the school). As a result, the HS coaches are very jealous of their athletes and the politics between the coaches is ridiculous. We have no HS coaches on staff, but (so far) none of them will encourage their players to join our club in the off season, for fear someone will 'influence' them to play at a different school. These coaches offer 'leagues' in the off season, where they charge a fee and play a game a week against another HS off-season team. Most of their players don't participate - so their teams don't get any better, and the players don't either. In my opinion, it is a lose-lose scenario. I can envision HS coaches now being encouraged (if they already haven't been) to start their own clubs in order to 'protect' their players from being recruited. Some people might think it a positive if some of the large clubs in So Cal are diminished - but I wonder what effect that would have on the sport overall?

sidelineview
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Re: New CIF Transfer Rules

Postby sidelineview » Wed May 09, 2012 4:26 pm

Clearly this change benefits the private school sector (religious or not, doesn't matter). Residence requirements by most school districts automatically restrict most attempts at inter-district or intra-district funny business.

With this change, one has to ask how long will it take CIF to realize that it is in the best interest of all involved that all sports should have "open" divisions; just as they have had for football and now will introduce for basketball.

waterwatcher
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Re: New CIF Transfer Rules

Postby waterwatcher » Wed May 09, 2012 4:30 pm

Well they could not enforce the rule for kids going to the Catholic schools anyway because they would get sued and have been. So why have a rule that only applies to school without deep pockets. Just make an open division and let them all fight it out there any leave the regular schools alone.

DaCous
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Re: New CIF Transfer Rules

Postby DaCous » Thu May 10, 2012 1:48 am

There is alot of discussion of the Catholic schools on this topic which is appropriate but, lets not forget the "open enrollment" of public schools. Catholic schools are not the only ones getting students who are only attending that school for the athletics. Its amazing how many kids are taking latin or auto shop these days and that school just so happens to have a top polo program! What about attending the school where you live ? I guess CIF is just admitting they can not control it,... or do not want to ?

OCPoloDad
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Re: New CIF Transfer Rules

Postby OCPoloDad » Thu May 10, 2012 10:31 am

DaCous, you are so right. There is a Football program that has lived for years with kids coming into its program for its "AgrScience" program, because they want to grow up and be a farmer. Also, a high powered Polo program has transfers due to the Latin program as you mention, a few of whom are out of District. CIF can control it, its that they choose not to. And for good reason as the expense mentioned is ridiculous. So, certain Public Schools can't cry foul to loud as they are'nt much different from the Catholic Schools when it comes to "recruiting".

Polo Nono
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Re: New CIF Transfer Rules

Postby Polo Nono » Thu May 10, 2012 12:25 pm

OC with the vote being 114 to 21 in favor of the new transfer rule, it doesn't look like most of the public schools had an issue with it. Look the reallity of the high school sports today is that parents who want to move their child to a school where they feel their oportunities will be greater, are going to make it happen with or without this rule. We have seen it year in and year out for all sports not just polo. And when you consider the state of the real estate market today, parents are typically looking to do the transfer without moving, thus the huge increase in hardship requests or "latin" transfers. I believe CIF finally just said "give them what they want" and put it to a vote that was obviously not even close. The real pressure is now on the coaches of any particular sport to provide a quality program, so as to maintain their numbers and success.

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poloshark
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Re: New CIF Transfer Rules

Postby poloshark » Thu May 10, 2012 4:57 pm

With the rising cost of college and with the challenge that some UC and State schools are limiting new students, it has become even more important to choose the right school and sports program for your child. If you have a child that has the possibility of getting a scholarship to a NCAA program and your home school does not have the resources to maximize his/her potential then why would you not look at other avenues to help your child succeed? If you are not breaking rules and if schools have ways that you can use then why not use them. It is not always let’s go help that school win a CIF title, most times it is lets go help my son/daughter get a better education, and yes education can be on the athletic field also. There is more at stake than just wins and losses, our children’s future are at stake and I will do anything I can to help them reach their goals. I know what some will say that you should worry more about academics than athletics and that is just plain foolish, you now have to worry about both. If you go into a college today without a program that he or she is in then it will take you on average 6 years to finish school because all programs are impacted. If you go in as a student athlete you have the advantage over the general population and can get that piece of paper in 4 years.

That is just one Dads opinion on the subject.

Otto
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Re: New CIF Transfer Rules

Postby Otto » Thu May 10, 2012 8:06 pm

Couple of responses:

1. The old rules limited every kid, regardless of academic opportunity or athletic talent. So it must be admitted that the change arguably promotes the freedom of every kid to pursue his athletic or academic opportunities.

2. However, I personally don't know any of those kids, unless they had an athletic motive. I sure know a lot of them. So in practice, there were few kids who were denied freedom and many who were gaming the system.

3. Recruiting is still a violation. But it's impossible to enforce. So certain ODP coaches at private schools and a few open enrollment public schools are free to have unlimited contact with the top players at the competition. You know where that goes.

4. I wouldn't be too impressed by the lopsided vote. Remember, it was a money vote. If the issue were only competitive fairness, than 100% of the hands would go up. When you ask the same school folks for contributions for the litigation fund you get a very different result. So it's not like all the public school administrators voted to make it easier for the kids to take the per capita revenue elsewhere. They just won't increase the CIF contributions to defend the rules in court.

I am sympathetic to the average kid who has a legitimate reason to move other than playing for an Olympian because a college will notice. I just haven't met that kid yet.

momofpoloplayer
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Re: New CIF Transfer Rules

Postby momofpoloplayer » Fri May 11, 2012 10:57 am

I've been pretty critical in the past about 'open enrollment' transfers, 'redshirt freshman' and any number of other phenomena which seem to be evidence of parents gaming the system for their child's athletic advantage. I don't think this new rule will open the floodgates of transfers in water polo given that the type of parent/player who would move for athletic reasons probably does so early on [pre-10th grade] already. I think it might be a factor in other sports [mostly having to do the the socioeconomic characteristics of water polo kids versus those in other sports--but this is another discussion].

That said, I'm not against this new transfer rule because there are situations where a student may wish to transfer for reasons other than gaining an athletic advantage. At one South Orange County high school where entitled parents ran off the head coach, some of the athletes quit the team rather than stay in the toxic environment that had been created. At a different school, other parents were looking for a way to get their athlete out of the high school becasue the situation was so bad. Because i've heard of situations like this, and know now that not every transfer is suspect, i've changed my mind.

Otto
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Re: New CIF Transfer Rules

Postby Otto » Fri May 11, 2012 1:56 pm

Momofpoloplayer, you raise an interesting point.

The free transfer rule will empower kids to move if they feel the coach is abusive. In this sense it may serve as a restraint on coaches alienating their players.

Before anyone jumps up and says every coach departure is the parents' fault and no coach could every possibly be abusive, please know that I am not commenting on any recent or particular coaching moves. I'm just saying that there is now a much freer market for players and that competition may encourage more efforts to keep the kids happy. For good or ill, and one could argue it, there is probably some truth to this observation by momofpoloplayer.

OCPoloDad
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Re: New CIF Transfer Rules

Postby OCPoloDad » Fri May 11, 2012 7:31 pm

Mom, Otto, very good posts. What could be ironic about this is that you take your child to a specific school for athletic reasons, only to find out come Fall that 7 other families have done the same thing. All of a sudden you go from All League, to 2nd off the bench. Be careful for what you ask for under the new rules.

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stickman
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Re: New CIF Transfer Rules

Postby stickman » Fri May 11, 2012 11:52 pm

Very good OCPoloDad.

It's going to be just like college...

Kids all flock to the same handful of schools believing they're good enough because they're getting a 'scholarship.' Only after they've signed do they discover that the same amount of 'text book money' was given to 10 other recruits, and they'll spend most if not all of their water polo career on the bench.

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