Need some input from other eyes

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rebelpolo
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Need some input from other eyes

Postby rebelpolo » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:39 am

Great finish to a CIF game today.

Question: at about the :42 second mark the Dark Cap Goalie passes up the pool to a forward player.
He is challenged from behind by a defender and the White Cap Goalie.
It appears the Goalie elevates using the back of the Dark Cap player as he attempts to shoot it.
No call; foul or exclusion.

Would appreciate some input from others.


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Rbpolo0414
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Re: Need some input from other eyes

Postby Rbpolo0414 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:45 pm

I'm curious to hear what the referees have to say. Looks like an ordinary to me. He hits his arm from behind and the dark cap loses the ball. I would say that in my experience watching goalies who come out like that, they swallow the whistle more often than not. It seems that they want to give the offensive player every opportunity to score on an empty net, but I'm always amazed when the refs don't call a foul when it appears the player gets mauled and loses the ball.

Edit: After watching it again, I'm not so sure. It looks like the goalie hits his arm in mid shot, so probably a good no call. It's such a bang bang play, it's hard to tell.

oldtimer
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Re: Need some input from other eyes

Postby oldtimer » Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:36 pm

We are on the wrong side to see everything, but it appears to me like the following:

1) Goalie passes up to counter attacker.
2) Defending goalie comes out to take away the pass or shot
3) Attacker gets the ball and puts it in the water - hand on top
4) Defending goalie puts hands down on attacker, who picks up the ball and tries to score on the empty net
5) Defending goalie hits the elbow/arm of the shooter.

Based upon that (if the assumption that hand is on top of the ball is correct), there is no foul from my perspective. A foul can only occur when the player is not holding the ball, and the determination of whether there is a foul depends upon whether the defender is in front or behind. For example, if the defender is behind and hits the arm that will usually be whistled - but if in front, it is considered a good defensive play. This is one reason why coaches try to teach players to 'take the extra stroke' around an attacker and hit the arm from in front.

The only way I can see this being a foul (ordinary), would be if the attacker dropped the ball before picking it up to shoot while the goalie puts his hands down.

retiredguy
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Re: Need some input from other eyes

Postby retiredguy » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:24 pm

I’m not a ref, but if they blow their whistle in this scenario it would have to be a 5m penalty shot. If the goalie comes out and prevents a goal with any type of foul, it is a 5m.

I agree that the player does get off a shot even though the goalie pushes him under and doesn’t play the ball in any way. Therefore, it is probably a good no-call since he didn’t drop the ball. Lastly, given the circumstances of this game being in Sudden Death OT I’m ok with the refs swallowing the whistle. I wouldn’t want the game decided by a questionable penalty call.

thesupernuge
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Re: Need some input from other eyes

Postby thesupernuge » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:10 pm

No call as far as I can tell. Had the player recognized the goalie was attacking, he could have turned him and released the ball, drawing the 5.

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