Chris Ramsey and USA WP Board - I'm calling you out!

Scallywags and Varmints
Missy
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Re: Chris Ramsey and USA WP Board - I'm calling you out!

Postby Missy » Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:54 am

I am not joining until I have an event and I think everyone should wait as long as possible. I am also going to join the new Masters group because they are using all the money that comes to them to develop Masters programs. It would be good if also think contacts the Board of Directors however I can't find their contact information on the website (go figure).

Good luck getting any answers from Chris unless you want to know how fast your kid has to swim the 100 in order to qualify for the team. He only takes softball questions which he is not even remotely qualified to answer.

Missy
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Re: Chris Ramsey and USA WP Board - I'm calling you out!

Postby Missy » Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:19 pm

Here is a table of competitive NGB salaries for reference. Click on it to make it bigger.
table_salaries.jpg

dlcarson
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Re: Chris Ramsey and USA WP Board - I'm calling you out!

Postby dlcarson » Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:06 pm

Based on the figures from the 2009 tax return posted on the USAWP website:

Total Revenue:

2006: 3,900,018
2007 4,703,394 (ODP Begins with a $850,000 income)
2008 5,024,824
2009 5,431,042 (USAWP takes back all bank accounts from Zones and assimilates it into their revenue)

Total Salaries:

2006: 422,000 (Tom Seitz made less than $100,000) Total staff=5
2009: 1,629,851 Total Staff= 18

*It cost the membership $1,207,851 in salaries to increase income by $1,531,024 but
The additional income from ODP ($850,000) and membership dues increases (Gold-Silver) have accounted for all of that.

Do we really need to spend over $1 million in salaries to realize that we can increase income by raising the cost of membership? Shouldn’t our dues and fees produce more progress for the sport than salary support for 18 people?

It cost the membership .78 in salaries alone for every dollar increase in income. I suspect the cost of rent for the Huntington Beach offices take up much of the rest.

From the USAWP Growth and Strategy Report on their website:
• ~25,000 members (vs. ~250,000 for both US Swimming and US Lacrosse)
• Smallest team sport with an NCAA championship (there are fewer men’s
teams now than there were 10 years ago)
• One of the smallest high school team sports
• Current lapse and join rates project flat to slightly negative growth
– Low retention under 10 years old limits growth
– Introduction of women’s water polo hides weakness in men’s membership
• 50% of all player members play with the largest 10% of clubs (~60 clubs)
• California concentration is extreme
– 77% of all USAWP members are from California
– 97% of clubs with over 100 members are in California
– 70% of all high school players are in CA
– 53% of all NCAA programs are in California and 73% of men’s Div. III
programs are in California
– 70% of players in the 2008 men’s NCAA tournament come from California
• Even within California the sport is still not pervasive
– Orange, Los Angeles, and San Diego counties make up 49% of members
in California versus only 35% of general population
– The next 6 counties account for 27% of members


How much progress has been made by investing $1,629,851 in salaries to solve these problems with membership?

Chris and Guy don’t set their own salaries. The Board of Directors does. We have to point our fingers at the Board. Does any one of the board members think these numbers would be acceptable in their own companies? If so, I wouldn’t want to be a stockholder.

polohomme
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Re: Chris Ramsey and USA WP Board - I'm calling you out!

Postby polohomme » Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:01 pm

CollegeGrad wrote:The board of directors voted to approve a non interest bearing loan for Guy Baker (Complete terms unknown).
I didn't know that USA Water Polo was in the business of providing non interest bearing loans.
Now that I do, how do I sign up?
I guess, I should Ask Chris.


Hi,

No authority here, but if memory serves (and in fairness to current BOD and CEO), the loan was made by a previous admininistration. Regardless, should the organization continue in the loan business?

fedup
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Re: Chris Ramsey and USA WP Board - I'm calling you out!

Postby fedup » Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:28 pm

I use the forum regularly and this takes the cake for abuse of membership by the NGB.
Thanks to the people taking the time to put this in an easy to understand context. I'm no accountant either but this group of incompetants dumped ONE AND A HALF MILLION DOLLARS IN SALARY into paying for no progress (did we go backwards?) I urge everyone to write to your zone chair and tell them that you have had enough. USAWP pays $206,000 a year for the insurance that we all think is so important. Why don't we get 206 people to cut a $100 check to water polo planet and let them buy our insurance for us? then we won't be tied to this vindictive group of rapists any more. Oh, and guess what? membership dues are going up again this year. They're even taking $30 from 5 year olds to support overpaid executives.
We are a pathetic third rate sport.
We have no one to blame but ourselves if we continue to put up with this. Don't pay your dues. Cut a check to Chris Ramsey instead.

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fanofpolo
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Re: Chris Ramsey and USA WP Board - I'm calling you out!

Postby fanofpolo » Fri Dec 03, 2010 7:45 pm

I'm curious......take personality out of it. How much do you think the CEO of US Water Polo should make? Look at it from this angle, if you had to advertise for a new CEO how much would you need to offer to attract the talent we need?

dlcarson
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Re: Chris Ramsey and USA WP Board - I'm calling you out!

Postby dlcarson » Fri Dec 03, 2010 9:54 pm

fanofpolo wrote:I'm curious......take personality out of it. How much do you think the CEO of US Water Polo should make? Look at it from this angle, if you had to advertise for a new CEO how much would you need to offer to attract the talent we need?


Based on the salaries of the CEO's from comparable NGB's, we should not offer more than $150,000 which is what the CEO of USA Diving makes for bringing in the same revenue. I realize this is low for the cost of living in Southern California but our past CEO's worked from Colorado Springs and Indianapolis where the cost of living is much less. USAWP is spending (according to the tax return) $1.5 MILLION on travel. Would that be significantly increased flying a CEO out to JO's from Colorado Springs or Indianapolis? The CEO of USA Diving AND USA Synchro live and work in Indianapolis.

My point is, we are paying a premium for salary ($1.6 million dollars a year). Are we getting commensurate return for that investment?
We need to find different ways to fund our sport than increasing dues. There. This is all the current administration seems able to do.

Our National team athletes are making $23,400 a year from the IOC and nothing from USAWP. Our execs are making $500,000.00. There is something fundamentally wrong with executives making so much money off the sweat of a few 20 year old kids. I argue that USAWP is more rapacious than the NCAA.

I'd be interested in anyone elses views.

fedup
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Re: Chris Ramsey and USA WP Board - I'm calling you out!

Postby fedup » Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:46 pm

fanofpolo wrote:I'm curious......take personality out of it. How much do you think the CEO of US Water Polo should make? Look at it from this angle, if you had to advertise for a new CEO how much would you need to offer to attract the talent we need?


I don't see this as personal. It's not Chris Ramseys fault that the board of directors gave him that salary. If your boss came to you and offered you a 300k a year, would you turn it down? I sure as heck wouldnt.Bring it on.
The CEO of US Diving makes $157,000 for an NGB income of about the same as USAWP. don't you care that our CEO is making twice as much? Don't you care that 100% of our dues and sanction fees are going toward salaries? Like someone said, they even charge 5 year olds $30 to play splashball. USAWP is all fee based. They are controling the referees(for a fee), controlling the players (for a fee) and now trying to get the coaches to join the USAWP Coahes assciation (for a fee). The latest email says that for the fee, coaches will get articles. Isnt that what we get here on WPP for free?

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Doc
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Re: Chris Ramsey and USA WP Board - I'm calling you out!

Postby Doc » Sat Dec 04, 2010 7:53 am

It has been said that imitation is the highest form of flattery; however, their first article on “Under the Cap” is not a very good imitation of a WPP article. The article looks as if it was placed on the USAWP Newsletter by a 3rd grader?

Doc

Missy
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Re: Chris Ramsey and USA WP Board - I'm calling you out!

Postby Missy » Sat Dec 04, 2010 10:46 am

How much is a reasonable salary?

We could get 1000 applicants that could do a better job if we offered it up for $100,000/year. I'm not kidding. Look at the perks - travel the world, pretend to be a hot shot, etc, etc. Market value - probably a performance based wage would make most sense.

Free articles for coaches?

1. The new masters program through AWP gives coaches free membership I think
2. If you are failing at 30 things, why not just keep adding more things to do badly?

What the heck is wrong with these people? I'm getting spam from them almost every day. I'm telling all my friends not to renew until they are REQUIRED to.

gort
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Re: Chris Ramsey and USA WP Board - I'm calling you out!

Postby gort » Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:26 pm

I work for a $4Million company. It's about the same size as USAWP. It has had steady growth (customers and total sales) for ten consecutive years. The President makes less than $200K. The COO makes about $140K. The five Unit Directors (like me) make around $90K. In the last ten years, we have more than DOUBLED the size of our company.

At last summer's BOD meeting, the President told a joke about his recent job evaluation from the Chair of the BOD: he said that he had told the BOD Chair "you only like me because I am successful.". The reply from the Board Chair? "We'd still like you, but we'd miss you.

That is how my company works. We only get raises or bonuses when we grow both in sales and profits. Why doesn't USAWP operate that way?
Klatu Mirada Nikto!

dlcarson
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Re: Chris Ramsey and USA WP Board - I'm calling you out!

Postby dlcarson » Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:36 pm

According to the financial statement, the organization pays $206,000 for insurance.

That means that for every $75.00 membership, $5.00 of your dues pays for your insurance and $7.50 goes toward 2 salaries.

coachrandy
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Re: Chris Ramsey and USA WP Board - I'm calling you out!

Postby coachrandy » Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:35 pm

one thing some of you need to remember is that both chris and guy are probably on a contract. they get their salary regardless of how the entity does over the course of the year. if you want to tie their pay to performance, then it needs to written into their contracts on the next go around. if you feel there is a better way to go, either personnel wise or structurally, then that is something that needs to brought up with the governing board. by the way, i am not a fan of ramsey, baker, or uswp, but fair is fair. there seems to be a lot of bashing of uswp and ramsey on this website, which is fine with me, but when opportunity to show both sides surfaces, then both sides should be presented (my opinion). thank you

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Re: Chris Ramsey and USA WP Board - I'm calling you out!

Postby Moderator » Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:01 pm

We are always happy to have both sides of every story on this website, Coach. Thanks for the input.

dlcarson
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Re: Chris Ramsey and USA WP Board - I'm calling you out!

Postby dlcarson » Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:55 pm

coachrandy wrote:one thing some of you need to remember is that both chris and guy are probably on a contract. they get their salary regardless of how the entity does over the course of the year. if you want to tie their pay to performance, then it needs to written into their contracts on the next go around. if you feel there is a better way to go, either personnel wise or structurally, then that is something that needs to brought up with the governing board. by the way, i am not a fan of ramsey, baker, or uswp, but fair is fair. there seems to be a lot of bashing of uswp and ramsey on this website, which is fine with me, but when opportunity to show both sides surfaces, then both sides should be presented (my opinion). thank you


Coach,

You're correct. Take a look at the financial statement-both pay plans are tied to performance and both were paid a bonus in 2009.

The governing board is the Board of Directors who sets the salaries. I haven't been able to locate the contact information for any of the board members. If you have them, please post them here or send me a private message.

Maybe if we had more transparency about what performance the Board of Directors is looking for, this situation would not seem so out of whack. I don't think anyone on this thread has been out of line. It has been very respectful and reasonable with everything backed up by facts posted on the USAWP website.

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