Coaching Carousel

Womens College Water Polo
PoloCommuter
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Re: Coaching Carousel

Postby PoloCommuter » Sun May 15, 2022 11:09 pm

John Miller out at CBU.

Schoolyards
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Re: Coaching Carousel

Postby Schoolyards » Mon May 16, 2022 12:15 pm

SwimCoach wrote:
Justafan22 wrote:Exactly, goes to show you how much better at 'coaching' and developing, Dan Klatt is, over any of the "top 4' coaches.


I think that Klatt is a very good coach, but how, exactly, is he better at “coaching” and developing over any of the other “top 4” coaches?

Neither Stanford nor UCLA had a single foreigner on their teams either.


SwimCoach,

I wasn't necessarily saying he is better coach (although personally I feel he is or else he wouldn't be in the position he is now with the Olympic team.) I was defending him as a recruiter. His coaching ability is stellar but to say, "but how, exactly, is he better at “coaching” and developing over any of the other “top 4” coaches? Neither Stanford nor UCLA had a single foreigner on their teams either." my response would be having Olympic players and the pick of the crop year after year is a huge advantage wouldn't you agree? My other example of coaching ability is, who was peaking at the end of the season and who was struggling, UCLA or UCI?

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Re: Coaching Carousel

Postby NoSoloPolo » Mon May 16, 2022 1:53 pm

jeff wrote:
Rational wrote:
jeff wrote:With Benson as the head coach, ASU would be in the NCAA semifinals or finals within four years


Genuine question - why do you think this? What advantage does ASU have over say a UCI? Klatt is an excellent coach, an Olympian, and Nat'l team assistant and he hasn't been able to accomplish this; in part because the top kids domestically thumb their nose at anything not big-3. Also Arizona doesn't have HS polo and their path to NCAA's through the MPSF is exponentially harder.


That's a fair question, Rational. It's easier to be admitted to ASU than U.C. Irvine, Michigan, UCLA, and Cal. For non-athletes it's easier to be admitted to Irvine than UCLA. However, I suspect Adam Wright can get any water polo player admitted to UCLA who could be admitted to Irvine. I haven't met many good water polo players (male or female) who would prefer to play for Irvine than UCLA. The top California players will choose UCLA, Cal, or USC over Irvine almost every time. This is one of Dan Katt's dilemmas and he hasn't been able to solve it. Moreover, gone are the days when a Ted Newland could find diamonds in the rough and turn them into 1st team All-Americans and Olympians. With the advent of year-round water polo and the Olympic Development Program, even I can tell you which high school athletes are the best players in any particular year. As one "Big 4" coach told me, "we know who all the good players are even if they don't play for a strong high school program."

The all-time ASU women's water polo team is significantly better than the all-time U.C. Irvine team. This is because ASU has been able to recruit far more top-notch international players than Irvine. With all due respect to Klatt, he has not excelled in this area.

Natalie Benson is one of America's greatest water polo players and has an excellent reputation domestically and internationally. In Fresno State's fifth year of women's water polo, Benson took her team to the NCAA tournament after winning the Golden Gate Conference (admittedly not a strong conference) for the second consecutive year. Benson has already demonstrated the ability to recruit international players. Fresno State's 2022 team had eight international players: one from Spain, one from Australia, two from New Zealand, two from Canada, and two from Hungary. U.C. Irvine had one international player, a freshman who scored 14 goals. One of Fresno's State freshman international players scored 70 goals and was named to the NCAA all-tournament second team.

I don't know whether Benson would leave Fresno State for ASU. However, if she is offered the ASU position and accepts it, her new position would enhance her ability to recruit talented international players as well as American players who cannot be admitted to Stanford, UCLA, Cal, Michigan, or U.C. Irvine. It wouldn't take her long at ASU to surpass Irvine and to compete with Cal for the No. 4 spot in the country.


Jeff-

I agree ODP has made the job of scouting and identifying US talent at the top of the pyramid pretty easy for the coaches. Furthermore, national team ODP tournaments played against international teams is another source of talent identification for int'l players - so yet another source of "easy" information. The admission process has academic minimums for sure...but we all know in most cases, these minimums are completely different for a highly recruited athlete. I'll just leave that there.

But, scholarships are pretty screwed up because of the unit standard and this is a large part of how schools recruit. It's "cheap" for CA state schools to get talented kids from CA. For a state school, an athlete's cost basis starts with in-state rates (~14k for UCI). So a 25% scholarship is enough of a feather in the cap, and helpful enough financially to be a recruiting tool. For example, if UCI offers 8 players 50% rides, they can give an additional 16 players 25% rides - and have a complete roster. Conversely, for UCI to get a single player from out of state ($43k tuition), they would have to give that ONE player roughly a 70% ride to equal FULL IN-STATE TUITION. So, why would Klatt really invest outside of CA when getting a single top player would cost him so much (and it's still a bit of a gamble)? It's a whole lot of hassle and expense and some risk.

But, a private school like USC is a different story. For qualified depth players the first question is, can the player afford to pay on their own...if they can afford to pay...they offer depth and a potential to develop. There's no significant financial advantage recruiting an in-state over out of state player since to land a player of equivalent talent, they have to be enticed at the same equivalent scholarship level.

Michigan is a public school that has to act like a private one. Not a lot (if any) if Michigan kids are good enough to play there and out-of-state is really expensive...so they are left giving a couple of kids big $$$ and trying to find a bunch they can develop and attract because water polo can help them get in academically - maybe giving them a bit.

I think players need to pay more attention to the team environment, how the coach coaches, the culture, and other such factors. Part of their homework should be getting to games and watching the coach and team interact while "doing the job". You can't see any of this on a live-stream and won't learn it from the coach and probably not even on a visit. But you can see it on deck during bona fide competition. You can see how the coach interacts with the team, with the refs, with their assistants, what they care about and the tools they use to communicate. You can see how the players interact, the role of the assistants, the role of the team leaders and the amount of professionalism the coaches display. You can see how they are prepared, or not prepared - and watching how coaches handle time outs and breaks between quarters can be revealing. You might not hear WHAT they say but you can definitely see HOW they are saying it.

Players need to see through some of the water polo glam and recognize the four year journey is long day-by-day but also incredibly short.

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Re: Coaching Carousel

Postby SwimCoach » Mon May 16, 2022 2:33 pm

Schoolyards wrote:SwimCoach,

I wasn't necessarily saying he is better coach (although personally I feel he is or else he wouldn't be in the position he is now with the Olympic team.) I was defending him as a recruiter. His coaching ability is stellar but to say, "but how, exactly, is he better at “coaching” and developing over any of the other “top 4” coaches? Neither Stanford nor UCLA had a single foreigner on their teams either." my response would be having Olympic players and the pick of the crop year after year is a huge advantage wouldn't you agree? My other example of coaching ability is, who was peaking at the end of the season and who was struggling, UCLA or UCI?


I think that I took your post more literally than you intended. As I said, I think that Klatt is a very good coach, but not necessarily better than Tanner, Wright or Pinta.

I agree that Klatt has done a great job at at UCI, but they had a lot of talent this year. They are certainly not as deep as UCLA and do not get the top domestic recruits that Stanford, UCLA and USC get, but Klatt has landed some some top notch players like Smith, Flynn and Lynch. Also, Prentice is Olympic level quality and may well be on the 2024 squad. She was also a top high school recruit.

Not sure why you are singling out UCLA, but their two games against them this year definitely surprised me. UCLA blew them out in March and they barely squeaked by them in the NCAAs. I expected both to be 3 goal games.

In the 2022 thread, I shared my pre-season list of top 10 teams and I picked UCLA #4 and UCI #5, exactly where they ended up. UCI may have exceeded other's expectations, but I felt that they were going to be that good.

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Re: Coaching Carousel

Postby wpolo93 » Mon May 16, 2022 2:55 pm

How different are academic admission requirements at UCLA and UCI for water polo players?

Schoolyards
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Re: Coaching Carousel

Postby Schoolyards » Mon May 16, 2022 3:00 pm

SwimCoach,

I stand corrected, I should have left it at, "What teams were peaking and which ones were not?" as I believe there were a few struggling down the stretch. Next year with the loss of seniors and Olympic talent on the top schools, it will be interesting to see if UCI/Hawaii/ASU can keep up with them. (rumor has it that Lara Luka is entering the transfer portal and going to USC) and a couple of others from Hawaii are transferring as well to other schools. With Covid affecting roster sizes, large budget schools can continue to build their rosters while others might not have the money to do the same thing.

And yes, I agree that Tara is an Olympic hopeful, she is that good, just look at her game against CAL.

Justafan22
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Re: Coaching Carousel

Postby Justafan22 » Mon May 16, 2022 3:02 pm

wpolo93 wrote:How different are academic admission requirements at UCLA and UCI for water polo players?


Well on paper, and only talking about GPA, the min required for a CA resident, to get into a UC is 3.0 and for an out of state, I believe it is 3.30 or 3.40.
Now we all know, nobody gets in with those GPAs unless you are an athlete and have a coach pushing hard for you

Schoolyards
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Re: Coaching Carousel

Postby Schoolyards » Mon May 16, 2022 3:08 pm

wpolo93 wrote:How different are academic admission requirements at UCLA and UCI for water polo players?


Little to none is my guess. The difference is the athletic budgets and lure of UCLA. 150k applications were submitted to UCLA this year, the most in the country followed by Harvard I believe. With their reputation, athletes will play for them with nothing more then books as compensation as a scholarship just to get in, and I don't blame them!

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Re: Coaching Carousel

Postby SwimCoach » Mon May 16, 2022 3:34 pm

Schoolyards wrote:With Covid affecting roster sizes, large budget schools can continue to build their rosters while others might not have the money to do the same thing.


Yes, the extra COVID year enabling some players to play a 5th year and the Olympic postponement really created a log jam at some of the schools. I do not remember there being so many players in the 23 to 25 age range. I feel for the recent high school recruits. There are not nearly the same amount of spots at some of the schools as there have been in the past.

wpolo93
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Re: Coaching Carousel

Postby wpolo93 » Mon May 16, 2022 4:23 pm

Justafan22 wrote:
Well on paper, and only talking about GPA, the min required for a CA resident, to get into a UC is 3.0 and for an out of state, I believe it is 3.30 or 3.40.
Now we all know, nobody gets in with those GPAs unless you are an athlete and have a coach pushing hard for you


My feeling is that for UC Santa Barbara, UCI and UCD one must have at least 3.4-3.5 GPA as a water polo athlete to sail through the admissions. Yes, the absolute requirement is a 3.0 but I doubt that many water polo players get in with GPA that low.

I thought that for UCLA and Cal, one needs a little bit more (probably closer to 3.7-3.8 ), no? I also thought that SAT scores were not that hugely important for student-athletes. I guess now they are probably optional so it must be a mute point.

SwimCoach
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Re: Coaching Carousel

Postby SwimCoach » Mon May 16, 2022 5:17 pm

wpolo93 wrote:My feeling is that for UC Santa Barbara, UCI and UCD one must have at least 3.4-3.5 GPA as a water polo athlete to sail through the admissions. Yes, the absolute requirement is a 3.0 but I doubt that many water polo players get in with GPA that low.

I thought that for UCLA and Cal, one needs a little bit more (probably closer to 3.7-3.8 ), no? I also thought that SAT scores were not that hugely important for student-athletes. I guess now they are probably optional so it must be a mute point.


UC schools can't even take SAT or ACT scores into consideration.
Last edited by SwimCoach on Wed May 18, 2022 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

HawkinsPolo4
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Re: Coaching Carousel

Postby HawkinsPolo4 » Wed May 18, 2022 4:19 pm

Petra Pardi named Head Coach for ASU as of this morning

PoloCommuter
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Re: Coaching Carousel

Postby PoloCommuter » Fri May 20, 2022 7:20 pm

Add a horse to the carousel. Looks like Cal State Fullerton is adding Men’s/Women’s WP programs in 2023. Awesome.

badparent
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Re: Coaching Carousel

Postby badparent » Fri May 20, 2022 8:26 pm

Where did you see that news?

Rational
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Re: Coaching Carousel

Postby Rational » Fri May 20, 2022 8:28 pm

https://www.fullertontitans.com/general ... 0520nzu1pd

I gotta think Gabriel Martinez is the front runner.

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