A couple of new rules for Women's NCAA play

Womens College Water Polo
SwimCoach
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A couple of new rules for Women's NCAA play

Postby SwimCoach » Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:16 pm

I just saw this posted. I am not sure about shortening the 35 second clock to 30, but it is good to see the penalty for simulation increased. Hopefully the refs enforce it. Stanford and Tanner will definitely have to adjust.

INDIANAPOLIS, Ind. — The National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) Playing Rules Oversight Panel during a virtual call on Tuesday, June 21, approved reducing the shot clock in women’s water polo to 30 seconds for the 2022-23 academic year. Previously, the shot clock was 35 seconds.

The Men’s and Women’s Water Polo Rules Subcommittee, which proposed the change, thinks a reduction in the women’s shot clock will reduce the holding and grabbing that occurs while the ball is in play.

The panel also approved a change to the penalty for simulation.

Starting next season, the penalty will be modified from a turnover when called on the offense and an exclusion foul when called on the defense to a team yellow card for the first offense by each team.

Subsequent calls for simulation on that team will be considered a minor act of misconduct by the offending player.

Release courtesy National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA)
Last edited by SwimCoach on Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Justafan22
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Re: A couple of new rules for Women's NCAA play

Postby Justafan22 » Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:23 pm

I agree, those added penalties for simulation is a step in right direction, if they enforce it. THere is already rules addressing simulation, but they don't get called much.

However I don't see either, how reducing shot clock by 5 seconds, will reduce the amount of holding by the defense.

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Re: A couple of new rules for Women's NCAA play

Postby Rational » Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:50 pm

Reducing the shot clock will lead to more swimming, plain and simple. The most boring and tedious part of the game, we're now devoting more time to it. A :35 sec clock gives the offense time to reverse the ball in the front court, work for the center, break down the defense. This rule will benefit UCLA, Cal, and USC as they have the depth to push more bodies in a "swimming war of attrition".

Sadly, a lot of East Coast coaches that play the majority of their games in a 20m course (25yd + goals) already have "extra time" and likely voted for this to "follow FINA"

Congrats on 50 years of Title IX Ladies - as a reward, we're gonna make you swim more!

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Re: A couple of new rules for Women's NCAA play

Postby Justafan22 » Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:11 pm

Rational wrote:Reducing the shot clock will lead to more swimming, plain and simple. The most boring and tedious part of the game, we're now devoting more time to it. A :35 sec clock gives the offense time to reverse the ball in the front court, work for the center, break down the defense. This rule will benefit UCLA, Cal, and USC as they have the depth to push more bodies in a "swimming war of attrition".

Sadly, a lot of East Coast coaches that play the majority of their games in a 20m course (25yd + goals) already have "extra time" and likely voted for this to "follow FINA"

Congrats on 50 years of Title IX Ladies - as a reward, we're gonna make you swim more!


Yes but regardless, they need to swim to the offensive side, so now they will need to get there faster, to set in their offense. So the 'boring' part as you mention, will now be 5 seconds shorter, because they will need to sprint hard to offensive side. You are correct that it will help the deep teams the most. They can cycle their players all game and keep them fresher

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Re: A couple of new rules for Women's NCAA play

Postby NoSoloPolo » Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:29 pm

Justafan22 wrote:
Rational wrote:Reducing the shot clock will lead to more swimming, plain and simple. The most boring and tedious part of the game, we're now devoting more time to it. A :35 sec clock gives the offense time to reverse the ball in the front court, work for the center, break down the defense. This rule will benefit UCLA, Cal, and USC as they have the depth to push more bodies in a "swimming war of attrition".

Sadly, a lot of East Coast coaches that play the majority of their games in a 20m course (25yd + goals) already have "extra time" and likely voted for this to "follow FINA"

Congrats on 50 years of Title IX Ladies - as a reward, we're gonna make you swim more!


Yes but regardless, they need to swim to the offensive side, so now they will need to get there faster, to set in their offense. So the 'boring' part as you mention, will now be 5 seconds shorter, because they will need to sprint hard to offensive side. You are correct that it will help the deep teams the most. They can cycle their players all game and keep them fresher


I think it will also encourage more outside shooting. To me this is an obvious by-product of having less time to setup.
Too bad most HS and Club programs see outside shooting as a last resort and girls in the US aren't taught or encouraged to become outside shooters. Enter the Hungarians etc...

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Re: A couple of new rules for Women's NCAA play

Postby stickman » Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:06 pm

[quote="Justafan22"

Yes but regardless, they need to swim to the offensive side, so now they will need to get there faster, to set in their offense. So the 'boring' part as you mention, will now be 5 seconds shorter, because they will need to [/quote]

No. The players don’t become faster swimmers just because the shot clock is decreased. The ones that aren’t already swimming hard are sitting on the bench. What will be shorter is the amount of time spent passing the ball around and getting a shot off…the interesting part of the game.

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Re: A couple of new rules for Women's NCAA play

Postby cbarrot » Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:30 pm

stickman wrote:[quote="Justafan22"

Yes but regardless, they need to swim to the offensive side, so now they will need to get there faster, to set in their offense. So the 'boring' part as you mention, will now be 5 seconds shorter, because they will need to


No. The players don’t become faster swimmers just because the shot clock is decreased. The ones that aren’t already swimming hard are sitting on the bench. What will be shorter is the amount of time spent passing the ball around and getting a shot off…the interesting part of the game.[/quote]

I do see your point, but I think they will get into the front court faster now. No more of the goalie holding the ball for a while looking for the best pass or a player to get open. All 6 players will need to get down the pool fast and get into their set offense right away. No more cruising

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Re: A couple of new rules for Women's NCAA play

Postby Water-Polo-Fan » Sun Jun 26, 2022 12:59 am

Well, if every other level is able to make 30 seconds work, I don’t see the issue.

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Re: A couple of new rules for Women's NCAA play

Postby Rational » Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:25 pm

FINA increases the goal size from 1m tall to 1.5m tall

WPP posters "Well I guess the goalies will just have to grow taller"

... "swim faster" is not an answer

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Re: A couple of new rules for Women's NCAA play

Postby dadonthedeck » Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:31 am

I’m just glad I get to say “new thirty” again.

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Re: A couple of new rules for Women's NCAA play

Postby ephpolo » Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:03 pm

NoSoloPolo wrote:[

I think it will also encourage more outside shooting. To me this is an obvious by-product of having less time to setup.
Too bad most HS and Club programs see outside shooting as a last resort and girls in the US aren't taught or encouraged to become outside shooters. Enter the Hungarians etc...


Yeah, it's a damn shame how the Hungarian women have been kicking our asses at international tournaments. Really too bad we don't develop players in the US who can compete with them as shooters. :roll:

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Re: A couple of new rules for Women's NCAA play

Postby Justafan22 » Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:49 pm

ephpolo wrote:
NoSoloPolo wrote:[

I think it will also encourage more outside shooting. To me this is an obvious by-product of having less time to setup.
Too bad most HS and Club programs see outside shooting as a last resort and girls in the US aren't taught or encouraged to become outside shooters. Enter the Hungarians etc...


Yeah, it's a damn shame how the Hungarian women have been kicking our asses at international tournaments. Really too bad we don't develop players in the US who can compete with them as shooters. :roll:


Spain is supposed to have some great outside shooters also, and their women showed our US women how it is done yesterday 8)
All that outside shooting led to ????

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Re: A couple of new rules for Women's NCAA play

Postby NoSoloPolo » Thu Jun 30, 2022 3:30 pm

Justafan22 wrote:
ephpolo wrote:
NoSoloPolo wrote:[

I think it will also encourage more outside shooting. To me this is an obvious by-product of having less time to setup.
Too bad most HS and Club programs see outside shooting as a last resort and girls in the US aren't taught or encouraged to become outside shooters. Enter the Hungarians etc...


Yeah, it's a damn shame how the Hungarian women have been kicking our asses at international tournaments. Really too bad we don't develop players in the US who can compete with them as shooters. :roll:


Spain is supposed to have some great outside shooters also, and their women showed our US women how it is done yesterday 8)
All that outside shooting led to ????


That's what I might expect to hear from a person who doesn't believe in the development or value of outside female shooters. Yep, the US beat Spain. Spain was run over by one of the most dominant women's team in all of sports...EVER. Your felt-tipped dart trying to disprove the value of female shooting on the basis of that game's result doesn't really stick. Also, Stephania scored 6 goals on 8 shots in the game against Spain...and where is she from? Oh yeah...Greece...all her development prior to playing at USC was in Greece.

The US Sr. National Team has an embarrassment of riches (in the best way). Adam K. doesn't NEED the club or HS coaches to develop shooters. Frankly, he doesn't even need ODP to develop shooters. He gets to PICK them off the top of the stack. The law of large numbers plays in his favor. So, when you compare the modest pipeline numbers of Spain or Hungary with that of the US and you look at the shooting talent they produce compared to us around the country...I think the development process and bias become rather clear. Oh...by the way...Hungary beat the US women in the Olympics if you recall...but that's not even my real point.

My point was the shooting skills drop off a cliff in the college ranks - and the post was about the college ranks. If you don't think it's true, you just haven't been paying attention. This lack of development (legs, technique, tactics, team system etc) is why many of the exceptional shooters in COLLEGE are not from the United States.

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Re: A couple of new rules for Women's NCAA play

Postby ephpolo » Thu Jun 30, 2022 4:59 pm

Looks like we'll get to see USA-Hungary Saturday.

As for the development pipeline, I'm certainly not opposed to more and better teaching of outside shooting skills--or of anything else. I'm just reacting to what seemed to me to be the suggestion that other countries were doing a better job developing talented female shooters than we are, while the US WNT is, in your words, "the most dominant women's team in all of sports". We can always do better, but we're already doing better than anyone else.

On the men's side, the differences in shooting skills between our best players and the top Euros is a lot larger, I think.

I do confess to finding much of the outside shooting game to be pretty boring water polo, at least under the current rules. An awful lot of it amounts to "drawing" fouls outside to "earn" a free shot. It's an effective tactic under the current rules, but I'd a lot rather watch drives, picks, counters, and strong center play. YMMV.

To the extent strong outside shooters open up the court and stretch zone defenses to provide for more drives, picks and center passes, that would be a good thing. (Think Golden State Warriors.)
Last edited by ephpolo on Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: A couple of new rules for Women's NCAA play

Postby NoSoloPolo » Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:10 pm

ephpolo wrote:Looks like we'll get to see USA-Hungary tomorrow.

As for the development pipeline, I'm certainly not opposed to more and better teaching of outside shooting skills--or of anything else. I'm just reacting to what seemed to me to be the suggestion that other countries were doing a better job developing talented female shooters than we are, while the US WNT is, in your words, "the most dominant women's team in all of sports". We can always do better, but we're already doing pretty well.

I do confess to finding much of the outside shooting game to be pretty boring water polo, at least under the current rules. An awful lot of it amounts to "drawing" fouls outside to "earn" a free shot. It's an effective tactic under the current rules, but I'd a lot rather watch drives, picks, counters, and strong center play. YMMV.


I am indeed emphatically saying (not even just suggesting) that other countries do a better job developing shooters (as a whole). Elite, Olympic caliber players who are great shooters from this country are found but it's due to the law of numbers - not necessarily due to any uniform and purposeful development by coaches at the lower levels.

I would LOVE to see women drawing a foul at 6 meters and scoring on a powerful, well placed shot!! This would completely open up the game and make it very exciting indeed.

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