2016 NJO Discussions

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LimeyPoloDad
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Re: 2016 NJO Discussions

Postby LimeyPoloDad » Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:07 am

jinvta wrote:So clearly Laguna is first, but who will get the silver? It looks like they tried to set up this makeshift bracket of 5 teams to have a Championship game (1st A vs 2nd A), but head to head SB Premier has a goal differential of +3 compared to SB 805 -3. SB Premier also beats out SB 805 for least goals against head to head at 18 goals compared to 21 goals against 805 in head to head competition. Further they won the later game of the tournament, which is most important in JO's as teams who lose early can back door with later wins. Records/scores against other teams should be completely irrelevant.

1. Laguna
2. SB Premier
3. SB 805

Anyone beg to differ?


Assuming Laguna beats SB 805 in the final game at Avery, and SB Premier beats Stanford (it was a 1 goal game in the 1st round), I would say that SB Premier gets Silver and SB 805 bronze.

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Re: 2016 NJO Discussions

Postby JackBurton » Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:14 am

LimeyPoloDad wrote:
retiredguy wrote:Here is another question, how long do they field a 10U Girls division if there are only 5 teams that enter


When JOs is held in Northern Cal, there are normally less teams entered than when it is held in Southern Cal. Last year there were 10 teams including OC teams Back Bay, SOCAL and SC Tritons.

Many 10U girls also play on 10U coed or 12U girls teams the second week of JO's. This means a 10U girls team from Southern Cal needs to come to Northern Cal for 10 nights at least $200 a night for a hotel room.

I think we would see more teams if they had 10U boys (get rid of Coed as girls and boys don't want to play together) playing the first week with the other boys and the 10U girls, the second week with the girls.

Also other early season tournaments such as EC Cup and SPA Cup/SPA league could have separate 10U boys and girls divisions.


IDK if I agree with that. My daughter seems quite happy playing 10U mixed. In fact at JO in socal a couple of the coaches I talked to on the deck mentioned that they had girls on their 12U squads that wanted to play for their current club but couldn't because 12U doesn't allowed mixed squads. As a parent I would much rather my daughter play at a club she liked rather than being forced to play for another club just because they have a girls squad.

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Re: 2016 NJO Discussions

Postby LimeyPoloDad » Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:37 am

JackBurton wrote:
LimeyPoloDad wrote:
retiredguy wrote:Here is another question, how long do they field a 10U Girls division if there are only 5 teams that enter


When JOs is held in Northern Cal, there are normally less teams entered than when it is held in Southern Cal. Last year there were 10 teams including OC teams Back Bay, SOCAL and SC Tritons.

Many 10U girls also play on 10U coed or 12U girls teams the second week of JO's. This means a 10U girls team from Southern Cal needs to come to Northern Cal for 10 nights at least $200 a night for a hotel room.

I think we would see more teams if they had 10U boys (get rid of Coed as girls and boys don't want to play together) playing the first week with the other boys and the 10U girls, the second week with the girls.

Also other early season tournaments such as EC Cup and SPA Cup/SPA league could have separate 10U boys and girls divisions.


IDK if I agree with that. My daughter seems quite happy playing 10U mixed. In fact at JO in socal a couple of the coaches I talked to on the deck mentioned that they had girls on their 12U squads that wanted to play for their current club but couldn't because 12U doesn't allowed mixed squads. As a parent I would much rather my daughter play at a club she liked rather than being forced to play for another club just because they have a girls squad.


Both my daughters hated playing with boys. The boys never wanted to pass when a girl was open, instead they tried to take a shots from half tank. They and many of their friends enjoyed moving up to 12U so they could pass, shoot and play as a girls team. They are now in HS still playing together as a team. BTW girls are allowed to play on boys teams at 12U.

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Re: 2016 NJO Discussions

Postby JackBurton » Tue Jul 26, 2016 1:54 am

LimeyPoloDad wrote:
JackBurton wrote:
LimeyPoloDad wrote:
retiredguy wrote:Here is another question, how long do they field a 10U Girls division if there are only 5 teams that enter


When JOs is held in Northern Cal, there are normally less teams entered than when it is held in Southern Cal. Last year there were 10 teams including OC teams Back Bay, SOCAL and SC Tritons.

Many 10U girls also play on 10U coed or 12U girls teams the second week of JO's. This means a 10U girls team from Southern Cal needs to come to Northern Cal for 10 nights at least $200 a night for a hotel room.

I think we would see more teams if they had 10U boys (get rid of Coed as girls and boys don't want to play together) playing the first week with the other boys and the 10U girls, the second week with the girls.

Also other early season tournaments such as EC Cup and SPA Cup/SPA league could have separate 10U boys and girls divisions.


IDK if I agree with that. My daughter seems quite happy playing 10U mixed. In fact at JO in socal a couple of the coaches I talked to on the deck mentioned that they had girls on their 12U squads that wanted to play for their current club but couldn't because 12U doesn't allowed mixed squads. As a parent I would much rather my daughter play at a club she liked rather than being forced to play for another club just because they have a girls squad.


Both my daughters hated playing with boys. The boys never wanted to pass when a girl was open, instead they tried to take a shots from half tank. They and many of their friends enjoyed moving up to 12U so they could pass, shoot and play as a girls team. They are now in HS still playing together as a team. BTW girls are allowed to play on boys teams at 12U.


We were told no they needed to be on a girls team. One of the coaches at CMAC wrote a letter to USAWaterpolo and got an exemption from them. Again this is what I was told when I was at the qualification tournament - I'm happy to hear that is not the case.

I'm sure your daughters' experience is more the norm than mine. Our daughter has really enjoyed playing with her friends on the 12U team this year. Of course she would love a girls team but she would prefer to stay at our current club.

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Re: 2016 NJO Discussions

Postby PoloEagle22 » Tue Jul 26, 2016 10:43 am

LimeyPoloDad wrote:
JackBurton wrote:
LimeyPoloDad wrote:
retiredguy wrote:Here is another question, how long do they field a 10U Girls division if there are only 5 teams that enter


When JOs is held in Northern Cal, there are normally less teams entered than when it is held in Southern Cal. Last year there were 10 teams including OC teams Back Bay, SOCAL and SC Tritons.

Many 10U girls also play on 10U coed or 12U girls teams the second week of JO's. This means a 10U girls team from Southern Cal needs to come to Northern Cal for 10 nights at least $200 a night for a hotel room.

I think we would see more teams if they had 10U boys (get rid of Coed as girls and boys don't want to play together) playing the first week with the other boys and the 10U girls, the second week with the girls.

Also other early season tournaments such as EC Cup and SPA Cup/SPA league could have separate 10U boys and girls divisions.


IDK if I agree with that. My daughter seems quite happy playing 10U mixed. In fact at JO in socal a couple of the coaches I talked to on the deck mentioned that they had girls on their 12U squads that wanted to play for their current club but couldn't because 12U doesn't allowed mixed squads. As a parent I would much rather my daughter play at a club she liked rather than being forced to play for another club just because they have a girls squad.


Both my daughters hated playing with boys. The boys never wanted to pass when a girl was open, instead they tried to take a shots from half tank. They and many of their friends enjoyed moving up to 12U so they could pass, shoot and play as a girls team. They are now in HS still playing together as a team. BTW girls are allowed to play on boys teams at 12U.


Limeypolodad you hit it right on the head. My daughter was almost done with water polo after U10s, because the boys on her team were socially and emotional less able to focus and develop than the three girls that played. Once she moved to U12 girls, she has been a different person, and has had a superior experience.

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Re: 2016 NJO Discussions

Postby caliwaterpolo » Tue Jul 26, 2016 10:45 am

Are they doing a stream of the finals?

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Re: 2016 NJO Discussions

Postby CMAC Waterpolo » Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:35 am

JackBurton wrote:
LimeyPoloDad wrote:
JackBurton wrote:
LimeyPoloDad wrote:
When JOs is held in Northern Cal, there are normally less teams entered than when it is held in Southern Cal. Last year there were 10 teams including OC teams Back Bay, SOCAL and SC Tritons.

Many 10U girls also play on 10U coed or 12U girls teams the second week of JO's. This means a 10U girls team from Southern Cal needs to come to Northern Cal for 10 nights at least $200 a night for a hotel room.

I think we would see more teams if they had 10U boys (get rid of Coed as girls and boys don't want to play together) playing the first week with the other boys and the 10U girls, the second week with the girls.

Also other early season tournaments such as EC Cup and SPA Cup/SPA league could have separate 10U boys and girls divisions.


IDK if I agree with that. My daughter seems quite happy playing 10U mixed. In fact at JO in socal a couple of the coaches I talked to on the deck mentioned that they had girls on their 12U squads that wanted to play for their current club but couldn't because 12U doesn't allowed mixed squads. As a parent I would much rather my daughter play at a club she liked rather than being forced to play for another club just because they have a girls squad.


Both my daughters hated playing with boys. The boys never wanted to pass when a girl was open, instead they tried to take a shots from half tank. They and many of their friends enjoyed moving up to 12U so they could pass, shoot and play as a girls team. They are now in HS still playing together as a team. BTW girls are allowed to play on boys teams at 12U.


We were told no they needed to be on a girls team. One of the coaches at CMAC wrote a letter to USAWaterpolo and got an exemption from them. Again this is what I was told when I was at the qualification tournament - I'm happy to hear that is not the case.

I'm sure your daughters' experience is more the norm than mine. Our daughter has really enjoyed playing with her friends on the 12U team this year. Of course she would love a girls team but she would prefer to stay at our current club.


In the Case with CMAC writing that letter, it was written to the Director of Development, which was prompt at replying NO. No female players were allowed to play Quals or JOs under a coed 12u team.
In cases of regular year tournaments, SPA LEAGUE, EC Cup, Turbo Cup, etc it is up to the Director of the tournament to allow or disallow coed teams. Newport runs the Sailor Cup and does not allow coed teams.

As we told by the Director of Development, Players are allowed to play 12u, 14u, etc Coed all year except for JO Quals and JOs.

CMAC did not get an exception for players to play Quals or NJO's.
Those 3 players had to go to Back bay to be able to participate in NJO's.

There will a petition for an amendment revision submitted under Article X of the USAWP Code of Champions in which the Membership can request a revision of the Rule and that the CEO will get to approve or Deny, not the Director of Development.

We strongly believe that the development of the athlete is about participation and when a club has 2 or 3 players that participate and compete with the Boys and it is only helping the development of the Sport. We have been told otherwise that it hurts the girls sport.

Well lets look at development of the sport, A team from Colorado, Texas, Oregon or Utah has 6 Boys and 4 Girls. They are good as group and possibly can compete at NJO's, but because we cant do a coed exception on the Boys session; the team does not get to go to NJO's.
Kids are turned off and decide to do something else. Waterpolo and the club loses players.
Now, lets say they get an exception, they come to NJO's and have a wonderful experience, share their experience with friends and Family and maybe the next year they have enough for an All Boys and all Girls teams.

Now lets explore the rules section, 10u and 12u share the same rules.
Why is 10u allowed to play coed and not 12u? Isnt 12u still development?

I remember Brenda Villa, Patty Cardenas, Robin Bouregard among other great players that played Coed all their life growing up.

There is enough small clubs out there with fantastic coaches that want to help develop players, but we must be allowed to help grow the sport in an organic way.

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Re: 2016 NJO Discussions

Postby LimeyPoloDad » Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:47 am

CMAC Waterpolo wrote:
JackBurton wrote:
LimeyPoloDad wrote:
JackBurton wrote:
IDK if I agree with that. My daughter seems quite happy playing 10U mixed. In fact at JO in socal a couple of the coaches I talked to on the deck mentioned that they had girls on their 12U squads that wanted to play for their current club but couldn't because 12U doesn't allowed mixed squads. As a parent I would much rather my daughter play at a club she liked rather than being forced to play for another club just because they have a girls squad.


Both my daughters hated playing with boys. The boys never wanted to pass when a girl was open, instead they tried to take a shots from half tank. They and many of their friends enjoyed moving up to 12U so they could pass, shoot and play as a girls team. They are now in HS still playing together as a team. BTW girls are allowed to play on boys teams at 12U.


We were told no they needed to be on a girls team. One of the coaches at CMAC wrote a letter to USAWaterpolo and got an exemption from them. Again this is what I was told when I was at the qualification tournament - I'm happy to hear that is not the case.

I'm sure your daughters' experience is more the norm than mine. Our daughter has really enjoyed playing with her friends on the 12U team this year. Of course she would love a girls team but she would prefer to stay at our current club.


In the Case with CMAC writing that letter, it was written to the Director of Development, which was prompt at replying NO. No female players were allowed to play Quals or JOs under a coed 12u team.
In cases of regular year tournaments, SPA LEAGUE, EC Cup, Turbo Cup, etc it is up to the Director of the tournament to allow or disallow coed teams. Newport runs the Sailor Cup and does not allow coed teams.

As we told by the Director of Development, Players are allowed to play 12u, 14u, etc Coed all year except for JO Quals and JOs.

CMAC did not get an exception for players to play Quals or NJO's.
Those 3 players had to go to Back bay to be able to participate in NJO's.

There will a petition for an amendment revision submitted under Article X of the USAWP Code of Champions in which the Membership can request a revision of the Rule and that the CEO will get to approve or Deny, not the Director of Development.

We strongly believe that the development of the athlete is about participation and when a club has 2 or 3 players that participate and compete with the Boys and it is only helping the development of the Sport. We have been told otherwise that it hurts the girls sport.

Well lets look at development of the sport, A team from Colorado, Texas, Oregon or Utah has 6 Boys and 4 Girls. They are good as group and possibly can compete at NJO's, but because we cant do a coed exception on the Boys session; the team does not get to go to NJO's.
Kids are turned off and decide to do something else. Waterpolo and the club loses players.
Now, lets say they get an exception, they come to NJO's and have a wonderful experience, share their experience with friends and Family and maybe the next year they have enough for an All Boys and all Girls teams.

Now lets explore the rules section, 10u and 12u share the same rules.
Why is 10u allowed to play coed and not 12u? Isnt 12u still development?

I remember Brenda Villa, Patty Cardenas, Robin Bouregard among other great players that played Coed all their life growing up.

There is enough small clubs out there with fantastic coaches that want to help develop players, but we must be allowed to help grow the sport in an organic way.


Sorry CMAC Water Polo, I was always lead to believe that a girl can always play on a boys team, but not the other way round. I am sure last year at the boys JOs I saw 1 of 2 girls playing on boy's teams from non CA teams.

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Re: 2016 NJO Discussions

Postby jlweath » Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:21 pm

In the 16U Boys it looks like it will be an all Pacific Zone final with SHAQ and Stanford. Socal lost to Stanford in a shootout, so they now will be going for 3rd vs Pride.

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Re: 2016 NJO Discussions

Postby caliwaterpolo » Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:53 pm

Vanguard won their 12U semi 25-5. Wow.

Edit: Nevermind, I just looked at their other scores. They are clearly on another level. They beat their Championship game opponent 25-2 yesterday.

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Re: 2016 NJO Discussions

Postby Bearlurker » Tue Jul 26, 2016 1:10 pm

In the 16U Stanford will play SHAQ for the title. Score a big one for northern California!

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Re: 2016 NJO Discussions

Postby polodad310 » Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:47 pm

Anyone know if the final games will be on livestream? Youtube live?

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Re: 2016 NJO Discussions

Postby jlweath » Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:59 pm

in the 14U Boys looks like Vanguard got beat by LA Premier. So LA Premier will meet the other favorite in the 14U's Socal who got by Stanford by 1 goal.

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Re: 2016 NJO Discussions

Postby LimeyPoloDad » Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:03 pm

polodad310 wrote:Anyone know if the final games will be on livestream? Youtube live?


According to the USAWP Instagram page, they are not live streaming. Not sure why they can't use the Facebook stream they use for the National team games. This is the National Championships :sad:
Last edited by LimeyPoloDad on Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2016 NJO Discussions

Postby caliwaterpolo » Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:38 pm

LimeyPoloDad wrote:
polodad310 wrote:Anyone know if the final games will be on livestream? Youtube live?


According to the USAWP Instagram page, they are not live streaming. Not sure why they can't use the Facebook stream they use for the National team games. This is the National Champiknships :sad:


Bravo, USA Water Polo

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