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2019 NJO Tournament Discussion - Session 1 - July 20-23 (12-18U Boys)

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:39 am
by jlweath
Time to start the discussion

Re: 2019 NJO Tournament Discussion - Session 1 - July 20-23 (12-18U Boys)

Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:14 pm
by OCWPDad
For 18U Boys... I get easily confused, but as I think I understand, assuming no upsets, 2nd day brackets would be:
M- SoCal/Lamo/Trojan
N- Stanford/SJWPF/VangRed
O- Newport/CCU/SD Shores
P- LA Prem/OCWPC/West Val
Is this correct, or do I have it totally bass-ackwards?

Re: 2019 NJO Tournament Discussion - Session 1 - July 20-23 (12-18U Boys)

Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:05 pm
by Gobama
Not an actual correction and I have no affiliation with either club, but you're not the only one on here who does this. We have a tiny sport so can this site get it right: Shores is SD. Shore is LB. There is no Long Beach Shores or SD Shore. Rant over.


Day 2 groups should go: 1-8-9, 2-7-10, 3-6-11, 4-5-12 so I have what you have

Socal Stanford Newport LA Premier
Lamo SJWPF CCU OCWPC
Trojan Vanguard Red SD Shores West Valley

Could see Vanguard pulling a mini upset over WV, Del Mar maybe sneaking by Vanguard Red. Tough to see any others sneaking into the top day 2 groups, but what do I know?

Re: 2019 NJO Tournament Discussion - Session 1 - July 20-23 (12-18U Boys)

Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:18 pm
by WaPoSaD
Just to have the other Day 2 age groups in one place (assuming no upsets):

16UB
SoCal/SF Warriors/Vanguard Blue
CCU/Rose Bowl/Patriots
SD Shores/Lamo/OCWPC
Trojan/Stanford/LA Premier

14UB
Newport/Rose Bowl/Del Mar
Vanguard/SHAQ/SoCal
Foothill/HB/SD Shores
680/LA Premier/Greenwich

12UB
Newport/Mid Valley/Commerce
Northwood/Del Mar/SoCal
SD Shores/680/Imperial
LA Premier/Vanguard/CMAC

Re: 2019 NJO Tournament Discussion - Session 1 - July 20-23 (12-18U Boys)

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:11 am
by jlweath
Updated my probable top 24 seeds from this weekend Central Zone Girls qualifications. This pretty much completes my input. There are still some unknowns and allocation issues, so we will see what prevails for these few exceptions.:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... =284694516

14u Division

Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:20 am
by Lefty2024
the 14 division this year is very intresting. There are 6 teams who can win it (Newport, 680, Vanguard, Foothill, LA Premier, Greenwich, Trojan, and a few more). During futures, 680 and Vanguard looked good, and 680 won in a shootout. The Vanguard team has a very young and small team, with half their team being first years. They have also all been to at least 2 NJO Finals. The 680 team is very big, and in 12u’s they were the favorite, but then ended up 4th. Cant wait to see how the 14u division enps up

Re: 2019 NJO Tournament Discussion - Session 1 - July 20-23 (12-18U Boys)

Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:20 pm
by Wopo Watcher
How does the third day go for the top 12 of 16u and 18u boys?

Re: 14u Division

Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:08 am
by retiredguy
Lefty2024 wrote:the 14 division this year is very intresting. There are 6 teams who can win it (Newport, 680, Vanguard, Foothill, LA Premier, Greenwich, Trojan, and a few more). During futures, 680 and Vanguard looked good, and 680 won in a shootout. The Vanguard team has a very young and small team, with half their team being first years. They have also all been to at least 2 NJO Finals. The 680 team is very big, and in 12u’s they were the favorite, but then ended up 4th. Cant wait to see how the 14u division enps up


I totally agree that the 14U division has a lot of really good teams that are fun to watch. I’d be surprised if Greenwich has the depth to make a run on day 2 or 3 though. More likely they are a team that finishes around 7-10. A team to watch is Del Mar, they could finish in the top 5 if they get the right matchups. Trojan surprisingly didn’t have a very strong Quals tourney, but they certainly have some players that could lead them to a high finish. Palos Verdes is another sneaky good team that could find their way into the top 10.

Re: 2019 NJO Tournament Discussion - Session 1 - July 20-23 (12-18U Boys)

Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:06 pm
by wplover
This year teams could opt-out of Champs and compete in Classic instead, in theory giving their spot to a top Classic team. Anyone know if that will happen and when?

Re: 2019 NJO Tournament Discussion - Session 1 - July 20-23 (12-18U Boys)

Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:48 pm
by MattsDad
Why would a team want to play down to Classic? To ensure 49th place?

Re: 2019 NJO Tournament Discussion - Session 1 - July 20-23 (12-18U Boys)

Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:04 pm
by jlweath
In the pass I have mapped out a simple flow to help me try to map teams advancement ahead to determine critical games and other things be prepared for. Below is a very simple example of this:

I will try to use as few words as possible to explain the flow for the winners (winners of brackets A(1) -L (12)). I will assume higher seeds win each time to keep it simple.

Day 1
- First 2 games (all W/L) to determine A(1) - L (12). If you win both games you are in the A(1) - L(12) spots. If you lose both games you will play in the Gold division (25-48). If you split your 1st 2 games on day 1 you will play a 3rd game on day 1 to determine in you stay in the Platinum. If you win the 3rd game you stay in Platinum (at 13-24)if you lose the 3rd game you will drop into the Gold division (25-48).
- The following steps only deal with the advancement for the top 12 teams in Platinum to keep it simple
- Determine the M (1,8,9 seeds), N (2,7,10 seeds), O (3,6,11 seeds), P (4,5,12 seeds) brackets for day 2 play

Day 2
- Round robin play in M, N, O, P to determine 1st, 2nd, 3rd in bracket (2 games)
- 3rd place in M, N, O, P (9,10,11,12 seeds) will play a challenge game against the (13,14,15,16 seeds) - 9vs14, 10vs13, 11vs16, 12vs 15 for game 3 for the 9,10,11,12 seeds. This is an important game, you cannot lose, because it will knock you out of the top 12 and you will not be able to get back in. Seeds 1-8 do not have to play a 3rd game

Day 3
- 2nd place teams from M, N, O, P bracket will play the challenge winners of the 3rd game on day 2 (I am assuming it is the 9, 10, 11, 12 seeds) - 5vs11, 6vs12, 7vs9, 8vs10. I am assuming 5, 6, 7, 8 win and advance.
- the top 4 seeds will play their 1st game of day 3 - 2vs3 and 1vs4- the winners (I assume 1, 2) will move to the semis on day 4
- 2nd game of day 3 for 5-8 seeds are - 5vs8, 6vs7
- Losers of the top 4 (I assume 3, 4) will play a challenge game assumed winners 5, 6 - 3vs5, 4vs6 - winners of this will move to the semi game against 1,2 on day 4

Day 4
- 1st game of day is semi-final - 1vs3, 2vs4
- 2nd game is final 1vs2

Re: 2019 NJO Tournament Discussion - Session 1 - July 20-23 (12-18U Boys)

Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:07 pm
by kernsting
wplover wrote:This year teams could opt-out of Champs and compete in Classic instead, in theory giving their spot to a top Classic team. Anyone know if that will happen and when?


Request had to be made within in 10 days of completion of quals. Request to be made by the zone on behalf of the team. All reallocation has already happened and the qualified teams listed on USAWP should not change at this point. there were some changes:
14UB Mountain moved one seed from classic to invitational; Pacific moved 1 from invitational to classic

16UB Mountain moved one seed from classic to invitational; Coca gained 1 seed in classic (from invitational)
SE moved 1 seed from Championship to Classic; Pacific moved one seed from classic to championship

18UB Mountain moved 1 seed from Championship to Classic; Pacific gained 1 seed to championship from classic
SE moved 1 seed from Classic to Invite; SoPac moved 1 seed from Invite to Classic

From the USAWP:
"4.Zones will be permitted to request a swap of a Championship Allocations (1-48th place) for a Classic Division Allocations (49-96th place) with approval from the Championship Finals Management Committee (CFMC). Requests must be specific to age group and gender and must be submitted within 10 days following the conclusion of the qualifier or July 1st, whichever comes first"

Re: 2019 NJO Tournament Discussion - Session 1 - July 20-23 (12-18U Boys)

Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:50 pm
by NewFan18
MattsDad wrote:Why would a team want to play down to Classic? To ensure 49th place?


Well, if you have a team that barely qualified for the Championship, maybe due to the lack of competition in that zone, and maybe game results from prior tournaments prove that they don't really belong there, it might be in their best interest to move down to Classic. Although we know at the end of the day on the overall JO placement, any team in Classic is technically lower than any Championship team, I think the kids would enjoy getting a medal, rather than finishing in 47th place.

[/quote]From the USAWP:
"4.Zones will be permitted to request a swap of a Championship Allocations (1-48th place) for a Classic Division Allocations (49-96th place) with approval from the Championship Finals Management Committee (CFMC). Requests must be specific to age group and gender and must be submitted within 10 days following the conclusion of the qualifier or July 1st, whichever comes first"[/quote]

Interesting that the wording only mentions moving specifically from Championship to Classic, and the only changes actually made where from Classic to Invitational.

Re: 2019 NJO Tournament Discussion - Session 1 - July 20-23 (12-18U Boys)

Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:50 pm
by keepitfair
FWIW I went thru the tourney cascade as well a few years back and show slightly different matchups than jlwealth:
Day 3 top 4 seed matchups are 1v4 and 2v3 so challenge games are 3v5 and 4v6
Day 4 semis are 1v3 and 2v4
Not sure where the truth lies.

Re: 2019 NJO Tournament Discussion - Session 1 - July 20-23 (12-18U Boys)

Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:51 am
by jlweath
keepitfair wrote:FWIW I went thru the tourney cascade as well a few years back and show slightly different matchups than jlwealth:
Day 3 top 4 seed matchups are 1v4 and 2v3 so challenge games are 3v5 and 4v6
Day 4 semis are 1v3 and 2v4
Not sure where the truth lies.


Thanks Keepitfair, you are correct, I updated the flow.