Fina World League Super Final Roster

USA Water Polo's Mens National Teams
Rbpolo0414
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Re: Fina World League Super Final Roster

Postby Rbpolo0414 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:25 am

Croatia 10 USA 7. Looking like we will play Kazakhstan for last place. Apparently there were some red cards on both sides, players and coaches. Anyone watch the game?
Last edited by Rbpolo0414 on Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Fina World League Super Final Roster

Postby Rbpolo0414 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:41 am

Game 17, 15.15 – For places 5-8: Croatia v United States 10-7
Quarters: 3-2, 0-1 , 3-1 , 4-3
Referees: Balazs Szekely (HUN), Juan Carlos Colominas (ESP)
CROATIA
Marco Bijac (GK, not entered), Ivan Marcelic (8/15, 53%) – Hrvoje Benic (1/2), Loren Fatovic (0/2), Ivan Krapic (1/1), Lovre Milos (2/3), Ivan Buljubasic (1/1), Ante Vukicevic (0/1), Andro Buslje (1/3), Andrija Basic (0/1), Josip Vrlic (1/1), Andelo Setka (1/2), Javier Garcia (2/7). Head coach: Ivica Tucak
UNITED STATES
Baron McQuin (GK, not entered), Alexander Wolf (11/21, 52%) – Johnathan Hooper (0/0), Marko Vavic (0/1), Alexander Obert (0/0), Benjamin Hallock (1/2), Luca Cupido (2/5), Hannes Daube (0/4) Alex Roelse (0/3), Alexander Bowen (2/2), Chancellor Ramirez (0/3), Jesse Smith (0/1), Maxwell Irving (2/3). Head coach: Dejan Udovicic
Goals/Shots
CRO: 10/27
USA: 7/25
Extramen
CRO: 3/12
USA: 4/9
Penalties
None
Best player of the game
Javier Garcia (CRO)

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Re: Fina World League Super Final Roster

Postby wpolo93 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:02 pm

Thersites wrote:When did Turkey and Russia become part of Europe? It is European in name only

If you are talking about geography, not politics then you should know that 5% of Turkey's land mass is in Europe (specifically, Thrace in the Balkan Peninsula). As for Russia, vast majority of its population lives in Europe (geographically) since the boundary between Europe and Asia comes through Ural Mountains. Russia/Soviet Union and Turkey have been a part of European championships in all sports for the last sixty years or so.
For example, Soviet Union became a member of UEFA (European soccer governing body ) in 1954, and Turkey joined in 1960.

In any case, your idea of a US team joining the LEN Champions League is a pipe dream, sorry for being blunt. Even if one assumes for the sake of an argument that somebody can secure funding for an American team for the next say ten years (which I strongly doubt), there is basically no incentive for LEN to let a US team into the League. Additionally, grand European clubs have history and a stable fan base. Who would root for a US team in Europe? Imagine for a second that say NCAA allowed Turkish Youth National basketball team to play in the NCAA. Do you really believe that Kentucky, North Carolina, Duke fans would be equally interested in their teams playing Turks on a regular basis?

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Re: Fina World League Super Final Roster

Postby Dinosaur dad » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:28 pm

SwimCoach wrote:
2plyBathingSuit wrote:I'm never "optimistic" about our SNT when you have college players, fresh out of college (and/or in some cases, not even in college yet) trying to compete and win in a man's world. I don't blame the players, they are are all excellent and it's not their fault. I agree with Pacificblue. Until, when/if we figure out a way to develop players into their late 20's,...will never win at the international level. It's just the way it is.


You are totally right. I just keep hoping otherwise.



Pacificblue is spot on. Problem is finances. Reality sets in. Can’t develop them if we can’t support them

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Re: Fina World League Super Final Roster

Postby WaPoSaD » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:24 pm

Thersites wrote:When did Turkey and Russia become part of Europe? It is European in name only.


FWIW, as a matter of pure geography, Turkey and Russia have always been considered (partially) in Europe. The western part of Russia (around a quarter of its landmass) is in Europe and ditto for the western part of Turkey (around a twentieth). Asia gets the rest.

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Re: Fina World League Super Final Roster

Postby Thersites » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:12 pm

Your missing the point completely-- Thank God you're not of the ilk of an American Entrepreneur == if Fina wants to expand the game, they need to be more inclusive..... they are not expanding the fan base in Europe it is stagnant and dying. America is the holy grail, and where the money is. I don't know how the Croatian, Serbian, Italian, Hungarian teams stay in business.... Grow the sport or perish.

As to 5% of Turkey in Europe? No informed European would consider a Muslim country part of Europe- ever-- Wonder why they are not in the EU?
Same with Russia... Not Europe, now , ever or in the future. Wake up Trumpsters!

wpolo93 wrote:
Thersites wrote:When did Turkey and Russia become part of Europe? It is European in name only

If you are talking about geography, not politics then you should know that 5% of Turkey's land mass is in Europe (specifically, Thrace in the Balkan Peninsula). As for Russia, vast majority of its population lives in Europe (geographically) since the boundary between Europe and Asia comes through Ural Mountains. Russia/Soviet Union and Turkey have been a part of European championships in all sports for the last sixty years or so.
For example, Soviet Union became a member of UEFA (European soccer governing body ) in 1954, and Turkey joined in 1960.

In any case, your idea of a US team joining the LEN Champions League is a pipe dream, sorry for being blunt. Even if one assumes for the sake of an argument that somebody can secure funding for an American team for the next say ten years (which I strongly doubt), there is basically no incentive for LEN to let a US team into the League. Additionally, grand European clubs have history and a stable fan base. Who would root for a US team in Europe? Imagine for a second that say NCAA allowed Turkish Youth National basketball team to play in the NCAA. Do you really believe that Kentucky, North Carolina, Duke fans would be equally interested in their teams playing Turks on a regular basis?

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Re: Fina World League Super Final Roster

Postby EdgarAllanPolo » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:39 pm

Log off Thersites, you're drunk. Neither political preference nor your opinion change geography fact.

Here's a helpful link you can use next time you have a question about things like this: http://bfy.tw/IjWl

Thersites wrote:Your missing the point completely-- Thank God you're not of the ilk of an American Entrepreneur == if Fina wants to expand the game, they need to be more inclusive..... they are not expanding the fan base in Europe it is stagnant and dying. America is the holy grail, and where the money is. I don't know how the Croatian, Serbian, Italian, Hungarian teams stay in business.... Grow the sport or perish.

As to 5% of Turkey in Europe? No informed European would consider a Muslim country part of Europe- ever-- Wonder why they are not in the EU?
Same with Russia... Not Europe, now , ever or in the future. Wake up Trumpsters!
"It is the nature of truth in general, as of some ores in particular, to be richest when most superficial."

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Re: Fina World League Super Final Roster

Postby Pride&Polo » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:54 pm

Getting back to the USA-Croatia game. The Serbia head coach received a red card and won't be able to coach the 5th place game against Australia. Ben Hallock received a red card in the 4th quarter and won't be able to play against Kaz in the 7th place game. Somewhat questionable red card for Hillock. I didn't see anything extreme on the replays. After a Croatia player scored a goal, there was an underwater "tussle" in front of the cage..

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Re: Fina World League Super Final Roster

Postby Rbpolo0414 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:01 pm

Pride&Polo wrote:Getting back to the USA-Croatia game. The Serbia head coach received a red card and won't be able to coach the 5th place game against Australia. Ben Hallock received a red card in the 4th quarter and won't be able to play against Kaz in the 7th place game. Somewhat questionable red card for Hillock. I didn't see anything extreme on the replays. After a Croatia player scored a goal, there was an underwater "tussle" in front of the cage..


I still think the US wins, but Hallock is probably the most valuable player on the team considering there is no true 2m backup. I guess Obert and/or Bowen will have to play 2m.

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Re: Fina World League Super Final Roster

Postby 2plyBathingSuit » Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:23 am

Montenegro will prevail over Hungary for first. I'm cheering for Japan to take it to Spain for the third spot. Wouldn't that be a kicker!

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Re: Fina World League Super Final Roster

Postby Apghrenegade » Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:54 am

Result of Spain vs Japan is 90% controlled by ref style. Japan over plays passing lane, all the time, everywhere. If the ref's call any back door drives on weak side, away from the ball, as instant offensive fouls against Spain...as they did some 4-8 times against the USA, that sets up multiple Japan counter attack goals. Also, if the ref's reward most small Japan driving motions on offense with ejections, and Japan winds up with 12-16 man advantages, the game is likely to be very close. If however the style of refereeing in the 3rd place game is like Japan's first 3 games in the group, they have no chance against Spain.

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Re: Fina World League Super Final Roster

Postby 2plyBathingSuit » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:12 am

Apghrenegade wrote:Result of Spain vs Japan is 90% controlled by ref style. Japan over plays passing lane, all the time, everywhere. If the ref's call any back door drives on weak side, away from the ball, as instant offensive fouls against Spain...as they did some 4-8 times against the USA, that sets up multiple Japan counter attack goals. Also, if the ref's reward most small Japan driving motions on offense with ejections, and Japan winds up with 12-16 man advantages, the game is likely to be very close. If however the style of refereeing in the 3rd place game is like Japan's first 3 games in the group, they have no chance against Spain.


Yes, but I'll still be cheering for the underdog Japan. What better way to grow the sport is there than to have a "non-european" team place in the top three of a major tournament? I'll be cheering for the refs to help out Japan as you state. They're going to need it.

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Re: Fina World League Super Final Roster

Postby Thersites » Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:22 pm

Sorry ur link does not work, and neither your logic. Turkey is not Europe and will never be, geographically, culturally, politically or any which way.
Geographies are not cut in stone but in constant flux, just ask the Palestinians, but the Ottoman empire was never Europe.

My point is not to argue geography but "Inclusion" for a Champion's League bid for other countries, including the U.S. and
bringing league games to the U.S. to grow the sport. As mentioned, Clubs in Europe are challenged financially.



EdgarAllanPolo wrote:Log off Thersites, you're drunk. Neither political preference nor your opinion change geography fact.

Here's a helpful link you can use next time you have a question about things like this: http://bfy.tw/IjWl

Thersites wrote:Your missing the point completely-- Thank God you're not of the ilk of an American Entrepreneur == if Fina wants to expand the game, they need to be more inclusive..... they are not expanding the fan base in Europe it is stagnant and dying. America is the holy grail, and where the money is. I don't know how the Croatian, Serbian, Italian, Hungarian teams stay in business.... Grow the sport or perish.

As to 5% of Turkey in Europe? No informed European would consider a Muslim country part of Europe- ever-- Wonder why they are not in the EU?
Same with Russia... Not Europe, now , ever or in the future. Wake up Trumpsters!

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Re: Fina World League Super Final Roster

Postby wpolo93 » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:15 pm

Thersites wrote:Your missing the point completely-- Thank God you're not of the ilk of an American Entrepreneur == if Fina wants to expand the game, they need to be more inclusive.....

As to 5% of Turkey in Europe? No informed European would consider a Muslim country part of Europe- ever...
Same with Russia... Not Europe, now , ever or in the future. Wake up Trumpsters!

Well, where do you want to put Albania? 59% Muslim, 17% Christian. So you really want a country with 100% land mass in Europe to play in Asian region just because it has a Muslim majority? Rich. If I may say so you make two mistakes practically every time you start a conversation here. First, you are not well informed yet think otherwise. Second, you quickly move to personal attacks if somebody disagrees with you.

Back to the topic of the World League Super finals. The US team has a promising core. If those guys decide to stick together for the next six years and play in Europe as much as possible they have a chance. Just look at Bowen. He became a really good intl player.

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Re: Fina World League Super Final Roster

Postby 2plyBathingSuit » Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:40 pm

Final rankings:

1. Montenegro
2. Hungary
3. Spain
4. Japan
5. Croatia
6. Australia
7. U.S.
8. Kazakhstan

Montenegro vs Hungary- Crazy tough battle ending in a shootout. No surprise here.
Spain vs Japan- I don't think anyone is surprised by this outcome; but with a 7-7 tie going into the 4th period...I give Japan a solid round of applause and..."The Most Improved Country Award".
Croatia vs Australia- Croatia will be much better than this the next time around.
U.S. vs Kazakhstan- A fitting end and fine example of the multitude of issues (discussed ad nauseum here) that the US Men's SNT faces.

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