World Champs

USA Water Polo's Mens National Teams
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Swearengen
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Re: World Champs

Postby Swearengen » Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:28 pm

The way this team plays is tough to watch. I can't believe what I'm seeing. They're not a team at all. They lack preparation and training. They lack basic knowledge of how to play correctly. And some of the players (like the ones who shoot and don't cover back on defense) need to go. We have a great generation of players right now that with the right coaching and the right amount of work could really compete. We need a coach who knows how to coach this team, not a manager who speaks with a golden tongue but doesn't produce and never has. Embarrassing.

Al
"I'm declaring myself conductor of this meeting as I have the bribe sheet." - Al Swearengen

Poloforever
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Re: World Champs

Postby Poloforever » Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:54 pm

Swearengen wrote:The way this team plays is tough to watch. I can't believe what I'm seeing. They're not a team at all. They lack preparation and training. They lack basic knowledge of how to play correctly. And some of the players (like the ones who shoot and don't cover back on defense) need to go. We have a great generation of players right now that with the right coaching and the right amount of work could really compete. We need a coach who knows how to coach this team, not a manager who speaks with a golden tongue but doesn't produce and never has. Embarrassing.

Al


The biggest mistake was made by USWP by giving Dejan a new 4 year contract prior to the Rio Olympics. Most of the teams in the world, in any sport, wait until they see the results of the Olympics before they offer the next 4 year contract to a coach. USWP was basing their evaluation of Dejan as a coach by the promises that he made about "winning gold in 2020", rather than looking at actual results.If they had waited until after Rio, and seen the results and the way that the US team played, they never would have offered Dejan a contract. Baker was fired after one year after placing 11th at the World Championships, and Azevedo was fired after 1 1/2 years after placing 9th in the next World Championships; and yet Dejan placing in a 9th place tie at the Rio Olympics was given a 4 year extension on his contract. If they were worried about Dejan going back to Serbia, they shouldn't have been. He was enjoying the good life in America. There is no way he was going anywhere.

SkipShot101
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Re: World Champs

Postby SkipShot101 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:07 pm

USAWP seems to focus solely on goal scoring when selecting players to national teams - all the way from the senior national/olympic team to the Cadet National team that travels to Europe each year. In my opinion there is not enough emphasis put on players that specialize in defense, facilitating the offense, passing, and team play.

Of course I don't have intimate knowledge of every player on every team but from watching uncountable olympic, ncaa, national league, high school, etc games, and watching many of the players come up thru the ranks over the past decade, it's appears clear that top scorers are rewarded with national team selections while other facets of the game are over looked.

For every shot taken, there has to be 2 to 3 guys (or more) covering. And you need defensive specialists in at least a couple positions at all times. Just filling the pool with a team of shoot first, rest on defense players doesn't create a team that can win against talent that is equal or better.

To use an NBA analogy - Our national teams are full of Carmelo Anthony. Or even better, Steph Curry. But who plays defense? Who passes? Who covers? Who sacrifices so the team flows? Who on the team is happy being Draymond so Steph can focus on offense and rest on defense?

Appears that everyone on the team now is focused on offense and resting on defense...without naming names. It's a group of all stars, but not a team.

sasabucur
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Re: World Champs

Postby sasabucur » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:44 pm

As the saying goes "One reaps what one sow!"

US Collegiate team made of many of these players attends National League games. The coach shows up at 730 for 8 o' clock game. Meets with players at 735, players enter water at 745 without any dryland warm up, swim 5 min, pass 5 min, shoot 5 min. Start game. Playing a bunch of collegiate grads, a couple that made the National team, and only three that play in a NCAA final tournament. Game finished 10-9 mostly due to refs helping the coach (afraid to make a call against NT coach).

Above story repeats for each of the 4 games played that weekend. Dejan was supossed to develop the young players. The above is rather misdevelopment. Adam, Kirk, Graham, and other collegiate coaches are doing more than Dejan does. All of his players are developing via the NCAA teams (none of the 23 and under developed via USMNT). The older guys have no development due to lack of games.

Main point to me: disrespect to the sport (due to lack of effort or expectations), lack of preparation (as in showing up late to practices/games or not having a plan), lack of planning in games (coaches needs to have many different approaches to the game in order to react to game situations), and lack of respect from the NT players (looks more like Lord of the Flies than players playing together). All of these would have an age group coach fired (at least in my experience). All of these would have an employee in one business fired. The Serbians question to US after Dejan took the job was who is watching and deciding if Dejan is doing his job! As far as I know, no one!

As of now there is no one. Also, the structure that feeds into the USMNT is self-feeding. That is all those that are "experts" are involved in it. So they will never tell themselves they are wrong and they will kiss each other arses to keep each other in the money they are getting. As I look at it each of those that makes $100,000s from USWP structure are reviewing each other. As such they will not change anything.

I have no answer here!

Rbpolo0414
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Re: World Champs

Postby Rbpolo0414 » Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:50 am

USA 12 AUS 11. I haven't seen the game yet but here is the recap

https://usawaterpolo.org/news/2019/7/19 ... ralia.aspx

pietro michele
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Re: World Champs

Postby pietro michele » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:08 pm

So we face Greece to try to qualify for the top 8?

I mean we expected to lose to Cro and beat Aus, but -10 and +1 differentials is a bad look.

If we don’t beat Greece then....

ephpolo
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Re: World Champs

Postby ephpolo » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:47 pm

Rbpolo0414 wrote:USA 12 AUS 11. I haven't seen the game yet but here is the recap

https://usawaterpolo.org/news/2019/7/19 ... ralia.aspx


Are recorded versions of the games available? I've been able to find the live feed, but not recorded games. If there is a link, please post. Thanks.

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2plyBathingSuit
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Re: World Champs

Postby 2plyBathingSuit » Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:07 pm

pietro michele wrote:So we face Greece to try to qualify for the top 8?

I mean we expected to lose to Cro and beat Aus, but -10 and +1 differentials is a bad look.

If we don’t beat Greece then....


We are not going to beat Greece...unless a miracle happens...then what?

Horse585
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Re: World Champs

Postby Horse585 » Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:36 pm

2plyBathingSuit wrote:
pietro michele wrote:So we face Greece to try to qualify for the top 8?

I mean we expected to lose to Cro and beat Aus, but -10 and +1 differentials is a bad look.

If we don’t beat Greece then....


We are not going to beat Greece...unless a miracle happens...then what?


Then we focus on how great JO's is, as this seems to be the true focus of the US federation. :lol:

ephpolo
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Re: World Champs

Postby ephpolo » Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:35 pm

We watch the women win--and hopefully, one of the other teams gives them a good game or two.

Although both the WNT forum here and the USAWP website seem more focused beach water polo right now. :sad:

Rbpolo0414
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Re: World Champs

Postby Rbpolo0414 » Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:15 pm

pietro michele wrote:So we face Greece to try to qualify for the top 8?

I mean we expected to lose to Cro and beat Aus, but -10 and +1 differentials is a bad look.

If we don’t beat Greece then....


I fully expected to lose to Australia so I’d say this is a good win.

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2plyBathingSuit
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Re: World Champs

Postby 2plyBathingSuit » Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:38 am

Rbpolo0414 wrote:
pietro michele wrote:So we face Greece to try to qualify for the top 8?

I mean we expected to lose to Cro and beat Aus, but -10 and +1 differentials is a bad look.

If we don’t beat Greece then....


I fully expected to lose to Australia so I’d say this is a good win.


You're more of a pessimist than I am...I had this game pegged as a toss-up. So, in my book this particular squeaker is neither a good OR a bad thing.

retiredguy
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Re: World Champs

Postby retiredguy » Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:11 am

Unfortunately, Australia didn’t seem terribly interested in this game. Whether you play Greece or Montenegro didn’t really matter because either one is going to be a challenge.

Are they doing a 9-12 classification here? We will most likely play the Aussies again in that round if that’s the case.

If USA can play a full game against Greece like they played in the first 5 minutes against Australia, they will be very competitive. It just seems to me as soon as we start substituting and the roster changes, there is no continuity and they start losing their defensive edge.

The biggest bright spot to me is Alex Wolf, I think he is a better goalie than Baron was in the last cycle. Let’s hope we can get him to stick around for a couple more Olympic cycles though.

Rbpolo0414
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Re: World Champs

Postby Rbpolo0414 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:38 pm

2plyBathingSuit wrote:
Rbpolo0414 wrote:
pietro michele wrote:So we face Greece to try to qualify for the top 8?

I mean we expected to lose to Cro and beat Aus, but -10 and +1 differentials is a bad look.

If we don’t beat Greece then....


I fully expected to lose to Australia so I’d say this is a good win.


You're more of a pessimist than I am...I had this game pegged as a toss-up. So, in my book this particular squeaker is neither a good OR a bad thing.


Australia was a much more experienced team so I assumed they would win. Not by much, as the games are always close with the US. But they did not look good and Dennerly was particularly poor in goal. Might want to give Porter a shot.

wpolo93
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Re: World Champs

Postby wpolo93 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:55 pm

Both Montenegro and Greece are quality sides but I would play Montenegro if I had a choice. Most Greek players play together for Olympiacos year long.
I think USA plays Greece at 11:30pm PT. Montenegro plays Australia at 10:00pm. Both games are on the Olympic Channel.

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