FINA junior world tournament

[Rbpolo0414]

Shooting/passing is a fundamental skill and in the US we usually do not work hard on it with 12U/14U kids. It is too hard to change bad habits after that. Leg strength is very important, yes, but basics are just not there for most of our pre-hs and hs athletes. Leg work, while extremely important, just does not fix it.

So we don’t work hard on shooting or passing? What exactly are we working on then at the 14u level?

[wpolo93]

2ply sort of just answered the question they way I would do.
Most European kids shoot and pass ball much better at the 14U level- takes practice and repetitions. Think about a gym rat shooting basketball hundreds of times after every practice...

[SkipShot101]

so many things wrong with this roster and coaching staff............. same tendencies, to improve , changes must be made,,,,,,We have seen what some of theses guys have done,,,,, is it working?? not top ten. here we go again...... good luck . SAD
posted earlier........ just saying...........

not sure why they sent that coaching staff????? I understand rodriguez is the USAMNT asst. Kocur still on National team staff?

As of the results vs Italy,,, no practice, jet lag, etc.......... come on people ,,,,,,,,, why not let some new coaches talk to these athletes.....
This goes back to our "Head Coach". Not being out there or giving a !@#$....... SAD

We need to hire a full time shooting coach at US Water polo. Preferably a Euro, but considering it wouldn’t pay well, maybe Tony Azevedo. There is no reason why we can’t teach our young athletes to shoot like the Euros. I still haven’t heard a good explanation why we are so bad at shooting. If I had to pinpoint something I’d say we spend too much time swimming laps and not enough emphasis on leg strength. Thoughts?

Is it possible that we need more defense, not more shooting?

[wpolo93]

I do not see how these two things contradict each other.

[SkipShot101]

I do not see how these two things contradict each other.

Well, we lost 18 to 11 and all everybody can talk about is shooting. But we scored 11 goals. You shouldn't get stomped if you score 11 goals. So what's the plan, get as many scorers on the team as we can and try to win every game 19 to 18?

Maybe the whole way we put the team together needs reevaluation and more focus should be on defensive players instead of just whoever shoots/scores the most for their ncaa team.

But what do I know, you guys are the experts. Sorry to interrupt. Now, back to the scoring discussion...

[2plyBathingSuit]

I do not see how these two things contradict each other.

Well, we lost 18 to 11 and all everybody can talk about is shooting. But we scored 11 goals. You shouldn't get stomped if you score 11 goals. So what's the plan, get as many scorers on the team as we can and try to win every game 19 to 18?

Maybe the whole way we put the team together needs reevaluation and more focus should be on defensive players instead of just whoever shoots/scores the most for their ncaa team.

But what do I know, you guys are the experts. Sorry to interrupt. Now, back to the scoring discussion...

I'm always a proponent for "more" defense...just ask anybody here on WPP my position on that. Speaking of defense...did we even have a goalie in net? I watched the game again and I'm hard pressed to see him make one block. That would've helped a bit. But I don't put all the blame on him,...shot blocking was nonexistent as well. But lets be honest here, our inside game was dreadful, our shooting sucked, our goalie sucked, we got worked over at the center d position...and our coaches sucked. So, where do we go from here?

[polo12345]

We go back to the same place as always. They will get a win today and all will be good. there is no "D" and not taught or talked about. When you are putting together a TEAM, they must put together a TEAM. This is on the coaches and selection of the athletes. Sometimes the best shooters , or so called, may not be the best for the TEAM. This is under the leadership of our "head coach" nothing will change till we get new voices talking to the athletes. Ormsby and Flacks are listed as Junior team coaches, where are they at this tournament? 2ply; and leadership to your list of sucks.

[Cap10America]

Maybe the whole way we put the team together needs reevaluation and more focus should be on defensive players instead of just whoever shoots/scores the most for their ncaa team.

Concur. Seems like the same way they did ODP and frankly, how NCAA play is awarded week to week. It’s all offense. On CWPA they award a defensive player of the week and it’s almost always a goalie - as though they are the only ones on defense. Offense is exciting I get it. Like you, I’m not an expert, just a fan.

[wpolo93]

Defence wins games, no doubt about it. And, in case you are wondering best European teams are better than us defensively. All what I tried to point out is that it is very important to teach young athletes proper fundamentals regarding shooting and passing. This takes a lot of repetitions. Ask Tony Azevedo how many times did he just go for extra shooting practice with his buddies before/after regular hs practice. I am sure the answer is a lot.
My point is that Europeans are doing it on a regular basis.

P.S. And did I mention that they are superior defensively ? :)

[ruin4life]

These are the best of the best Under 20 boys our country has to offer. They all have gone through all the levels of water polo development and excelled. They did not get to this level without working their ass off. Maybe the Italians are just the better team(now). The boys are in the tournament to learn from their opponents and gain experience playing world class water polo. Give the sport time to grow and come 2028, USA can medal in water polo again. Positive thoughts.

Do you think the Italians complain this much on BBP every time USA BasketBall routs the Italian basketball team?

[2plyBathingSuit]

These are the best of the best Under 20 boys our country has to offer. They all have gone through all the levels of water polo development and excelled. They did not get to this level without working their ass off. Maybe the Italians are just the better team(now). The boys are in the tournament to learn from their opponents and gain experience playing world class water polo. Give the sport time to grow and come 2028, USA can medal in water polo again. Positive thoughts.

Do you think the Italians complain this much on BBP every time USA BasketBall routs the Italian basketball team?

Remember Stuart Smaller's "Daily Affirmation" skit on SNL? Your comment reminds me of this. "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, people like me! I deserve good things. I am entitled to my share of happiness. I refuse to beat myself up. I am attractive person. I am fun to be with"

P.S. You are correct about one thing...we are very good at shooting baskets.

[jeff]

These are the best of the best Under 20 boys our country has to offer. They all have gone through all the levels of water polo development and excelled. They did not get to this level without working their ass off. Maybe the Italians are just the better team(now). The boys are in the tournament to learn from their opponents and gain experience playing world class water polo. Give the sport time to grow and come 2028, USA can medal in water polo again. Positive thoughts.

Do you think the Italians complain this much on BBP every time USA BasketBall routs the Italian basketball team?

With all due respect to the players on our junior national team, this isn't the best team we could have assembled. One of the goalies on our junior national team was the third goalie at Pepperdine this year. Moreover, several players (including players from Stanford, UCLA, and UCSB) declined to play in the World Championship tournament because the games are being played during the final-examination period for these schools. In addition to missing several of our top players, it doesn't help that the players who are playing have had almost no practice time together. I can't imagine the same could be said of the Italian team. For the reasons previously cited by 2Ply and others, our men's teams generally fall farther behind the world's top teams when the players are about age 19 or older.

[2plyBathingSuit]

These are the best of the best Under 20 boys our country has to offer. They all have gone through all the levels of water polo development and excelled. They did not get to this level without working their ass off. Maybe the Italians are just the better team(now). The boys are in the tournament to learn from their opponents and gain experience playing world class water polo. Give the sport time to grow and come 2028, USA can medal in water polo again. Positive thoughts.

Do you think the Italians complain this much on BBP every time USA BasketBall routs the Italian basketball team?

With all due respect to the players on our junior national team, this isn't the best team we could have assembled. One of the goalies on our junior national team was the third goalie at Pepperdine this year. Moreover, several players (including players from Stanford, UCLA, and UCSB) declined to play in the World Championship tournament because the games are being played during the final-examination period for these schools. In addition to missing several of our top players, it doesn't help that the players who are playing have had almost no practice time together. I can't imagine the same could be said of the Italian team. For the reasons previously cited by 2Ply and others, our men's teams generally fall farther behind the world's top teams when the players are about age 19 or older.

Yes. My Serbian friend (and coach) also told me that the US is competitive with the Europeans until about the age of 14 (or Cadet age). After which the degree of separation continues to grow exponentially (WPP has addressed this issue many times before). We cannot "catch up". This group is no different than the many groups that came before them. 2028 will be no different than any previous Olympic year (5th through 9th place)...it's just the way it is. But every year we have at least few cheerleaders that believe things will be different....that this will be the group. It wouldn't have mattered if we had "a better team" this go around or not.

[SkipShot101]

It's interesting, according to the 2020 Commit thread on WPP last HS season:

Newport Harbor had:
Tommy Kennedy - Cal
Ike Love - Stanford
Mo Kenny - UCLA
Blake Jackson - USC
Reed Stemler - USC

Harvard-Westlake had:
George Avakian - Cal
Nico Tierny - Pepperdine
Nolan Krutonog (GK) - Stanford

So how in the world did HW beat Newport and end up the best HS team in the nation...again? On paper that looks impossible.

Makes me wonder if there is more to building a winning/championship team than just putting all of the best scorers/shooters in the pool. I wonder if you need a mix of scorers with defensive specialists and guys willing to give up some scoring to pass and help/cheat to defense instead of not help/cheat to offense.

Alternatively, and I don't remember the final score of the HW/Newport championship game, maybe we can just keep trying to outscore every team. Is that how HW won? Did they just outscore newport 19 to 18? If so, then please just disregard this post.

[wpolo93]

Skip shot,

You are saying such obvious things that nobody will argue with it.

Still, a really good water polo player is supposed to do everything really well and, on top of it, be truly excellent in at least one area. Italians, on average, shoot better. And, on average, are better defenders. The discussion was not about whether to put more shooters on the team instead of more defensively oriented players. You obviously need all types of players on your team. Instead, the question was why US kids, on average, do not shoot the ball as well as European kids...

If you think that this is not the case, please feel free to say it. If you feel that this is the case but not that important, you can also say so...