16/18 u Girls club season

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cbarrot
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Re: 16/18 u Girls club season

Postby cbarrot » Tue Mar 07, 2023 7:00 pm

Gobama wrote:(replying to lots of people on mobile here so apologies for formatting)

You're not playing in garbage pools if you're in platinum.


We are on an age group thread, not a hs thread, and as my comment very clearly said, this isn't gwp specific.

High school sports are going away. It's just true across the board, so while a lot of OC private schools haven't spent the time and money required to close out all but the wealthiest public schools in gwp, they are starting to get there and it's a matter of time.


I'm not saying public schools can't win, I'm saying it's becoming untenable to compete long term.


And high performance athletes in a number of sports are beginning to stay away from high school athletics altogether--not yet in water polo, but it's a matter of time.


I agree when i and most people on this board played it was all about cif.... But now you have kids starting together at 8 or 9, and it's just not that same dichotomy anymore.


I know enough to know i don't know it all, but this is a shift that i personally am seeing.
You are correct in a lot of sports, Club has become more important that high school, however I think in waterpolo, CIF will be just as important , and relevant to win, as the JOs are, for quite some time. Hopefully it will stay this way for a long time. The high schools do control the pools, so that's a big factor, I would think.
We have seen a big shift in power on the boys side of high school waterpolo, but as far as the girls go, those privates still have a ways to go, before they catch up to the publics. And yes, I do realize that a private school won this year's CIF :-)

wpolo93
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Re: 16/18 u Girls club season

Postby wpolo93 » Tue Mar 07, 2023 11:23 pm

Regarding the club vs HS ( I.e. JO vs CIF) debate.
As probably everybody agrees it is not a clear cut case. One thing that high schools ( on the boys side and probably soon on the girls side) have is a long history/ tradition. Clubs change, grow, get disbanded but high schools are here to stay. Maybe for a kid from Newport Harbor, Foothill or say Miramonte the CIF success is at least as important as doing very well at the JOs, especially if one takes into account how many excellent players were a part of these storied programs in the past. Maybe not- who knows.

But for a kid playing for a Div 3 or 4 South Section team
and, say, a top ten club team the calculus could be different, no? Yes it is a lot of fun to play with your hs friends but the club season brings a much higher level of competition…

In short it is great to have both hs and club seasons. Will water polo go the way of soccer ( academies etc)? I hope not but everything is possible…

Rational
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Re: 16/18 u Girls club season

Postby Rational » Wed Mar 08, 2023 1:06 pm

Gobama wrote:You're not playing in garbage pools if you're in platinum.
In NorCal, that's not true - Seeds 1-12 may have the best pools, but 13-24 get the scraps. But even if you play at Stanford and get the Bellardi pool, they didn't have a scoreboard or clocks for some games last year. NorCal JOs is just a huge giveaway to Stanford University.

I agree that the shift underway is towards more closed clubs/HS only - if you look at allocations for JOs which is based on registrations by athlete age/gender, SoPac is 6/6 at 18u and 5/5 at 16u .... a decade ago it was 9/9 at 18s and 16s so there is a definite decline in USAWP enrollment.

https://usawaterpolo.org/documents/2023 ... ations.pdf

wpolo93
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Re: 16/18 u Girls club season

Postby wpolo93 » Wed Mar 08, 2023 1:38 pm

Rational wrote: In NorCal, that's not true - Seeds 1-12 may have the best pools, but 13-24 get the scraps.
OK, here we go. Just curious, which of the pools used by hs age girls in the 13-24 seed group during the last two JOs at Norcal were scraps?

2018
******
18U Platinum (13-24 places).
Day 2: Gunn HS and Stanford Baker
Day 3: Palo Alto HS
Day 4: Gunn HS, Bellarmine HS.

16U Platinum (13-24 places).
Day 2: Palo Alto HS and Stanford Bellardi
Day 3: Gunn HS
Day 4: mostly Menlo Atherton HS and a couple of games at Morgan Hill (Live Oak).

2022
******

18U Platinum (13-24 places).
Day 2: Palo Alto HS, Gunn HS and Stanford Bellardi
Day 3: Gunn HS
Day 4: Las Positos College and Amador Valley HS.

16U Platinum (13-24 places).
Day 2: Palo Alto HS and Gunn HS
Day 3: Bellarmine HS and Independence HS (San Jose)
Day 4: Gunn HS, Harker HS, and Independence HS.

Justafan22
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Re: 16/18 u Girls club season

Postby Justafan22 » Wed Mar 08, 2023 3:14 pm

Rational wrote:
Gobama wrote:You're not playing in garbage pools if you're in platinum.
In NorCal, that's not true - Seeds 1-12 may have the best pools, but 13-24 get the scraps. But even if you play at Stanford and get the Bellardi pool, they didn't have a scoreboard or clocks for some games last year. NorCal JOs is just a huge giveaway to Stanford University.

I agree that the shift underway is towards more closed clubs/HS only - if you look at allocations for JOs which is based on registrations by athlete age/gender, SoPac is 6/6 at 18u and 5/5 at 16u .... a decade ago it was 9/9 at 18s and 16s so there is a definite decline in USAWP enrollment.

https://usawaterpolo.org/documents/2023 ... ations.pdf
Wow, no kidding. SouPac allocations, on the HS girls side are going down every year. Even at 14U. Those extra allocations are going to the Pacific and Central sections, which if I understand correctly, means more girls play water polo in those sections?

Justafan22
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Re: 16/18 u Girls club season

Postby Justafan22 » Wed Mar 08, 2023 3:20 pm

It's crazy to see, that in the 16/18U girls, the Midwest section will have as many allocations as SouPac will.

Justafan22
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Re: 16/18 u Girls club season

Postby Justafan22 » Wed Mar 08, 2023 3:32 pm

I know the 16/18U boys have Cal Cup this weekend, and there are a lot of teams there. I assume the girls have Cal Cup also, and it will probably be a good indication on who is fielding teams

polo45
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Re: 16/18 u Girls club season

Postby polo45 » Wed Mar 08, 2023 4:53 pm

Sopac is the correct abbreviation.

polo45
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Re: 16/18 u Girls club season

Postby polo45 » Wed Mar 08, 2023 5:01 pm

Last year Sopac had 8 teams at 18s & 7 at 16s. These are only the initial allocations. I would expect those numbers to go up once final allocations are set. However it is true that there are more kids playing in other areas. There has been a big decline in 14 & 12 u teams in recent years with some former clubs not fielding teams anymore.

I do think it's good for Sopac to have more clubs 16s & 18s on the girls side so that 2 clubs aren't getting all the girls. With that said I don't think it benefits the girls to have more high school only clubs. The draw of the bigger clubs is getting different coaching, playing with more high level players and competing in the big club events. Some of the schools that were mentioned could not field an 18s team if they tried let a lone a team at 16s and 18s.

Justafan22
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Re: 16/18 u Girls club season

Postby Justafan22 » Thu Mar 09, 2023 3:06 pm

polo45 wrote:Last year Sopac had 8 teams at 18s & 7 at 16s. These are only the initial allocations. I would expect those numbers to go up once final allocations are set. However it is true that there are more kids playing in other areas. There has been a big decline in 14 & 12 u teams in recent years with some former clubs not fielding teams anymore.

I do think it's good for Sopac to have more clubs 16s & 18s on the girls side so that 2 clubs aren't getting all the girls. With that said I don't think it benefits the girls to have more high school only clubs. The draw of the bigger clubs is getting different coaching, playing with more high level players and competing in the big club events. Some of the schools that were mentioned could not field an 18s team if they tried let a lone a team at 16s and 18s.
Indeed, even just from one year to the other, the lowering of two allocations in the championship division in both those divisions, seems like a big drop. So as somebody mentioned above, this has more to do with how many kids are registered with USAWP in that specific region? And not really how many clubs there are, or where the stronger clubs are based?

cbarrot
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Re: 16/18 u Girls club season

Postby cbarrot » Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:33 pm

Justafan22 wrote:I know the 16/18U boys have Cal Cup this weekend, and there are a lot of teams there. I assume the girls have Cal Cup also, and it will probably be a good indication on who is fielding teams
Yes 16U and 18U girls also have games this weekend

NoCalPoloDad
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Re: 16/18 u Girls club season

Postby NoCalPoloDad » Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:51 pm

We just received notice that the Cal Cup finals have been moved from NoCal to SoCal (Norco) a month before the games are to take place. Anybody know why?

Gobama
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Re: 16/18 u Girls club season

Postby Gobama » Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:52 am

NoCalPoloDad wrote:We just received notice that the Cal Cup finals have been moved from NoCal to SoCal (Norco) a month before the games are to take place. Anybody know why?

Hmmm we had that same experience last year (but in reverse) and this year have had it on the schedule as a socal event for months....


Theres a reason just about everyone has jumped for futures......

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